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Load data for 9mm 147gr. coated bullets & CFE pistol


Bench

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Hi All, I've been digging in the forum but haven't found any discussions regarding this combination of coated bullets and CFE pistol powder. My Hornady 10th edition in 9mm gives no load data for lead bullets therefore no cross over that way either. Does anyone have data for this combination? Thanks!!

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Thanks njl, I have all the data for the 9mm Hodgdon XTP but all the reading that I've been doing indicates for coated to use the lead bullet specs. The Hodgdon 10th ed. manual and the online site version only gives the XTP specs. In the googling that I've done I've not found any references as you mentioned. Do you still have those? Was it through bullet mfgs. or ?? Also, is the crimp the same as the XTP? Thanks.

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14 hours ago, Bench said:

Hi All, I've been digging in the forum but haven't found any discussions regarding this combination of coated bullets and CFE pistol powder. My Hornady 10th edition in 9mm gives no load data for lead bullets therefore no cross over that way either. Does anyone have data for this combination? Thanks!!

I followed a similar path. I use Bayou 147gr with 3.7gr CFE, cci #500, 1.14 OAL. Provides a relatively soft recoil with good accuracy. This recipe was suggested by a fellow shooter using the same bullet. I haven't chrono'd this so I can't comment on PF for this load. I've range compared it with 3.2gr of Tite Group and I couldn't detect a difference.  

Edited by Redaye
More relevant info.
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Thanks Redaye, this is what I've been looking for. Have you worked up a starting load and max load ie. where does this load stand with regards to starting/max? What OD crimp do you use with the Bayous? Also, appreciate you sharing the comment on Tite Group.

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CFE is a pretty slow powder, You running a compensator ? Probably not  much data becaus eits a combo that doesn tmake alot of sense. Seems if u have a comp youd want a lighter bullet, if not you'd want a faster powder... Now if u just happen to have a few lbs and want to burn it on practice ammo ? Yeh ok we've all been there. I am loading 44 magnun cast with American select caus eI have a bunch and it didnt work out in 40

 

 

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CFE is pretty low on the chart, but I’ve used Longshot for 147s and it works. I don’t doubt CFE can get at least minor PF loads.

In general, reloaders can’t “work up” max loads. You can’t determine max by comparing velocity to published data (for different bullets/powders), and most of us don’t have the tools to measure the actual max chamber pressure.

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1 hour ago, njl said:

CFE is pretty low on the chart, but I’ve used Longshot for 147s and it works. I don’t doubt CFE can get at least minor PF loads.

In general, reloaders can’t “work up” max loads. You can’t determine max by comparing velocity to published data (for different bullets/powders), and most of us don’t have the tools to measure the actual max chamber pressure.

It's reassuring that I can get at least minor power factor since that's where I'm at in USPSA production. Regarding max loads...isn't such things as primer deformation a pretty good indication that you are getting max pressures or at least headed in that direction at a given load and OAL? Just getting/relearning this reloading thing from rifle to pistol.

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23 minutes ago, njl said:

Some say you can read pressure from the primers.  Others say, by the time the primers are showing "signs of pressure", you're way over safe pressure.

LOL. Great!! Thanks. That's one comment I'll keep in mind on down the road. Thanks njl!!

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23 hours ago, Bench said:

Thanks Redaye, this is what I've been looking for. Have you worked up a starting load and max load ie. where does this load stand with regards to starting/max? What OD crimp do you use with the Bayous? Also, appreciate you sharing the comment on Tite Group.

Not sure where this load falls in max/min for Bayou w/ CFE. The starting point was based off of a round I was getting from a fellow shooter. Same bullet with Tite Group at 3.2gr. I acquired a large amount of CFE in a trade and felt compelled to use it up. Used the Hodgen data for lead and crossed my fingers and toes. I can tell you it works well for me. No problems and good accuracy, so far. So good. Regarding crimp? A much debated topic for 9mm. I don't bell much. Just enough to accept the bullet and measure .377 at the case mouth. Eventually, I'll go to Tite Group at 3.2gr as they seem to be very similar in performance, at least for my experience level. I haven't chrono'd these CFE rounds so, none of the above should be chiseled in stone. The Titegroup rounds were around 130 PF. I'm pretty new to this and shoot local, level 1 matches. Hope to chrono the CFE's soon and I'll post my results. 

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21 hours ago, Redaye said:

Not sure where this load falls in max/min for Bayou w/ CFE. The starting point was based off of a round I was getting from a fellow shooter. Same bullet with Tite Group at 3.2gr. I acquired a large amount of CFE in a trade and felt compelled to use it up. Used the Hodgen data for lead and crossed my fingers and toes. I can tell you it works well for me. No problems and good accuracy, so far. So good. Regarding crimp? A much debated topic for 9mm. I don't bell much. Just enough to accept the bullet and measure .377 at the case mouth. Eventually, I'll go to Tite Group at 3.2gr as they seem to be very similar in performance, at least for my experience level. I haven't chrono'd these CFE rounds so, none of the above should be chiseled in stone. The Titegroup rounds were around 130 PF. I'm pretty new to this and shoot local, level 1 matches. Hope to chrono the CFE's soon and I'll post my results. 

Thanks Redaye, sounds like I'm a few steps behind you in the learning process.Looking forward to hear what you find with the chrono'd CFE.

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On 3/28/2018 at 11:33 PM, Redaye said:

I followed a similar path. I use Bayou 147gr with 3.7gr CFE, cci #500, 1.14 OAL. Provides a relatively soft recoil with good accuracy. This recipe was suggested by a fellow shooter using the same bullet. I haven't chrono'd this so I can't comment on PF for this load. I've range compared it with 3.2gr of Tite Group and I couldn't detect a difference.  

is the fired brass just as dirty or more clean with CFE over Titegroup?

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On 3/29/2018 at 7:24 PM, Bench said:

Joe4d. No Comp now, just turning on the GO switch for USPSA production and working up some loads for coated reloads. Thanks!

 

Id suggest a faster powder, you're barking up the wrong tree.
If u hit the 9mm reloading pages, lots and lots of data at about any OAL.
Almost all of it, with faster more suitable for the job powders.

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7 hours ago, Joe4d said:

Id suggest a faster powder, you're barking up the wrong tree.
If u hit the 9mm reloading pages, lots and lots of data at about any OAL.
Almost all of it, with faster more suitable for the job powders.

Thanks Joe4d, I'm in the process of loading up some Titegroup which on powder lists is faster than CFE. So hopefully I'll know more after some range time with the new loads. 147 Precision over 2.5 Titegroup at 1.058 (Lymans book)

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11 hours ago, glockster68 said:

is the fired brass just as dirty or more clean with CFE over Titegroup?

Since I just changed to Titegroup I'll be able to tell. Range time coming up here shortly.

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in general for non compensated pistols, one of the faster powders that still safely produces the velocity you want at the higher end of published data will burn cleaner, use less powder and generate less recoil than using a reduced charge of a slow powder.
There are other powder properties to consider as well.
Some are cleaner than others,, although most are clean "enough" to get through a match. Some feel TG burns hot, and can cause smoke in the older Moly coated bullets, no idea about these new coatings. Some powders are effected by temperature,. Some get a little faster or slower based on temps. Some powders meter better than others.
I used a whole whole bunch of tightgroup in just about everything though without issues.

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2 hours ago, Joe4d said:

in general for non compensated pistols, one of the faster powders that still safely produces the velocity you want at the higher end of published data will burn cleaner, use less powder and generate less recoil than using a reduced charge of a slow powder.
There are other powder properties to consider as well.
Some are cleaner than others,, although most are clean "enough" to get through a match. Some feel TG burns hot, and can cause smoke in the older Moly coated bullets, no idea about these new coatings. Some powders are effected by temperature,. Some get a little faster or slower based on temps. Some powders meter better than others.
I used a whole whole bunch of tightgroup in just about everything though without issues.

Thanks Joe4d. I'm headed out to the range this AM so glad I got to read your post here. Now I'm eager to see how this Titegroup and loads run through a couple of my pistols. Yesterday I was surprised when setting up for reloading how little TG is used (Lymna's pistol manual). It'll be interesting to see if there is a smoke issue...can't be as significant as in the black powder days lol! I'm using the "new" Precisions too. Thanks again!!

 

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Tight group may not be best in every catagory, but it is a top 5 in every.
I just looked at the survey from nationals for carry optics. Basically production with a dot. Tight group was OVERWHELMING favorite... I mean it wasnt even close. TG users 54% next closest was like 12% VV320.. I buy it by the 5 lb jug

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12 hours ago, Joe4d said:

in general for non compensated pistols, one of the faster powders that still safely produces the velocity you want at the higher end of published data will burn cleaner, use less powder and generate less recoil than using a reduced charge of a slow powder.
 

Maybe the difference is more noticeable in larger calibers, but in 9mm, with 147gr bullets, I've found that I really can't tell the difference between loads to the same velocity using fast (Promo) and medium (Universal) powders.  

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17 hours ago, njl said:

Maybe the difference is more noticeable in larger calibers, but in 9mm, with 147gr bullets, I've found that I really can't tell the difference between loads to the same velocity using fast (Promo) and medium (Universal) powders.  

LOL, as a newbie, I thought that it was just my inexperience not being able to tell the difference between TG and CFE with 147's...

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Could be you are dealing with some pretty small charges and mousefart level loads. Most of my experience is in 40 major. My IDPA gun was an all steel SS 1911,, so recoil was about nonexistent with minor PF

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On 4/6/2018 at 5:45 PM, Joe4d said:

Could be you are dealing with some pretty small charges and mousefart level loads. Most of my experience is in 40 major. My IDPA gun was an all steel SS 1911,, so recoil was about nonexistent with minor PF

I was surprised how little powder was loaded. I have the powder bar cranked all the way down for the start loads with Titegroup. Even then it's a pretty loud mousefart...

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