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Missing the mag well on reloads


JamesEM

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That's a fairly loaded question, but I'll do my best.

 

1. That's common. Even the best shooters in the world have guns with magwells that look like a dog chewed on them.

2. It becomes less frequent with more, and more frequent, practice. Dry fire 6 days per week; work reloads in at some point. 

3. Physical visualization: Your eyes should find the inner lip of the magwell. That requires you to figure out the correct reload position in dry fire. Some people keep the gun higher; some people bring it lower and closer. There's no uniform "right" way to do it.

4. Mental visualization: Mentally run through what you need to do for 3 (above) before each drill, or each run of the drill. Treat it like a stage at a match where you are mentally rehearsing your plan. 

5. Practice, practice, practice.

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Do this drill. 

 

 

 

You only miss reloads because you didn't see the mag well or your finger is not straight on the mag. 

 

Keep your finger straight, this drill forces you to see the mag well. 

 

It worked for me. 

 

 

Edited by BikerJon
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Pretty much the same as above.  Make sure to get the same grip on the mag every time (normally figure strait up the front of the mag), keep the gun high and watch the mag all the way into the mag well.  I miss more reloads when I'm trying to look to the next target before I'm done reloading.

 

Burkett is a great drill for finding the mag well and increasing reload speed.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Taking the gun down lower during a reload is slower and harder to see the magazine into the magwell. Keep the gun up high, grab the mag with index finger extended across the front and keep your eyes on the corner of the magwell. The first part of the Burkett drill will help correct this, since you are inserting the magazine past the point of no return. Practice this until it's a subconscious skill

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I always have to make sure i am looking at a specific point inside the magwell.  If my reloads start going south more often than not it is because i am just looking at the magwell as a whole and not at the inside front corner.  Kind of like just looking at brown vs. a specific spot on a target.

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54 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

I also think playing with gun position is very underrated: angle the grip is canted at, muzzle up or closer to level, a pinch further from your torso, etc

Memphis is correct.  You have to find your spot to bring the gun to, that is repeatable.   If it is not comfortable and repeatable you are not going to get good at it.  Find the spot.  Practice at 20% speed and build from there.  I usually set my timer and if I beat the timer 10 times in a row, I lower the time and repeat.  Minimum movement allows you to be faster, but also is less for the brain to program into the subconscious mindset.

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I suggest in practice to pull the gun very close to your body during reload.  Further away from you it is harder to stay steady & have gun/magwell consistently in same place & stable.  In match this deteriorates a little so overexaggerate in practice. 

I see so many folks during match reloading with gun at the end of their arms.  Very ineffective.

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I find it's a little easier if you relax your support hand wrist just a tad so that minor rotation misalignment can sort itself out.

Also, for me, making sure I don't pull the gun to my strong side. It's faster and more consistent if the gun is midline or just barely to the support side of midline. If slightly strong side of midline, the mags seem to jam upon start of insertion.

This is for Single Stack... Limited reloads are more forgiving. [emoji12]

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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...and another trick to make sure that you are getting your eyes to the magwell soon enough is to make sure you can see the old mag fall out.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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10 hours ago, mlmiller1 said:

I suggest in practice to pull the gun very close to your body during reload.  Further away from you it is harder to stay steady & have gun/magwell consistently in same place & stable.  In match this deteriorates a little so overexaggerate in practice. 

I see so many folks during match reloading with gun at the end of their arms.  Very ineffective.

 

I disagree. I would rather do the reload as close as possible to the firing position so that I can get the gun back on target sooner after the reload. I’ll pull the gun in some, but I see lots of people do the “elbow into ribs” reload. That said, my reloads aren’t quite perfect yet, but when I miss them, it always happens for one of 3 reasons:

-Improper grip on the new mag (finger not high and straight along the front of the mag)

-Not really focusing my vision on the correct part of the magwell or moving my vision back off the magwell to soon

-Rushing, which usually leads to one of the first 2 errors

 

I’d say find the position that works, then figure out how to do it consistently, and then practice it for hundreds or thousands of reps in dry fire so that the skill is subconscously available to you.

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17 minutes ago, DKorn said:

I disagree. I would rather do the reload as close as possible to the firing position so that I can get the gun back on target sooner after the reload. I’ll pull the gun in some, but I see lots of people do the “elbow into ribs” reload.

 

We don’t really mention this, but it’s important to distinguish production/CO vs divisions with a magwell here, too.

 

Open and Limited guys tend toload futher up and out. 

 

If you honestly pay attention to the winning production GMs on the national level, quite a few of then load down lower and in closer than you would expect. Ben Stoeger, @hwansikcjswo, Alex Gutt, and a few others come to mind. 

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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12 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

We don’t really mention this, but it’s important to distinguish production/CO vs divisions with a magwell here, too.

 

Open and Limited guys tend toload futher up and out. 

 

If you honestly pay attention to the winning production GMs on the national level, quite a few of then load down lower and in closer than you would expect. Ben Stoeger, @hwansikcjswo, Alex Gutt, and a few others come to mind. 

 

 

Interesting. Do you think the magwell is the main reason for the difference?

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The magwell might dictate it for certain people, but it goes back to finding your own spot that is repeatable.  Travis Tomasie does his reloads in the same location no matter what gun he is shooting.  If you can see the magwell, and repeat the position then you can make the reloads 100% of the time.  

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1 hour ago, DKorn said:

 

Interesting. Do you think the magwell is the main reason for the difference?

 

I personally find it easier to hit the mag opening in a gun without a magwell with my arms pumping on the run with the gun closer to my body.

 

(Again, referring exclusively to production & CO. I observe that there’s much less variation in Limited and Open.)

 

For whatever reason a lot of the top guys do it too. Watch Hwansik Kim load on youtube. He racked up a lot of Production M wins last year, and he loads down near his belt. I would guess that it’s partially due to his ultra-low bowlegged movement style.

 

All that Walther contingency money he racked up indicates that it doesn’t seem to be hurting him any:

 

 

As I already mentioned, Ben Stoeger does a lower tighter load, too. He won World Shoot, Production Nationals, and **every single major match** he entered in 2017.

 

Loads down in front of his chest, elbows in:

 

My point is not to take “load up in front of your face and keep the gun out far to minimize movement”  as gospel. That’s just what dudes on the internet are saying

 

Find out what actually works for your body, and practice the hell out of it. Watch closely enough and thewinners in Production all load a bit differently. The thing they all have in common? They’ve done 20,000 more reps on their reloads than the rest of us.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:

My point is not to take “load up in front of your face and keep the gun out far to minimize movement”  as gospel. That’s just what dudes on the internet are saying

 

Find out what actually works for your body, and practice the hell out of it. Watch closely enough and thewinners in Production all load a bit differently. The thing they all have in common? They’ve done 20,000 more reps on their reloads than the rest of us.

 

 

Very interesting. I think I’m going to start videoing my reloading technique and re-evaluating my gun position. I had been taking Steve Anderson’s comments in his book about moving the gun the minimum amount needed to do the reload as my main focus and it might be what’s holding me back from more consistent reloads. I’ve also constantly heard the advice from many shooters of “Don’t drop the gun so low”. 

 

If I post a 10 second clip of my reloads, would you guys be willing to chime in about gun position or any other inneficiencies?

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On 3/4/2018 at 2:14 AM, BenBreeg said:

I always have to make sure i am looking at a specific point inside the magwell.  If my reloads start going south more often than not it is because i am just looking at the magwell as a whole and not at the inside front corner.  Kind of like just looking at brown vs. a specific spot on a target.

 

This. A suggestion I was given was to draw a little smiley face just inside the magwell. Then look for Mr. Smiley when reloading.

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Lots of great views on this & I dont care to argue but to carry mine on getting gun up close & high to completion lets talk about what we are doing when we reload.  We are taking an approx 2.5lb object(gun) & trying to mate it with an approx 1lb or more object(mag) to pinpoint (no magwell) or near pinpoint(magwell) all while doing something else....moving or whatever.  The further away from your body you are doing this the more unstable it becomes.  The more leverage these weights have especially when you include momentum from mag slamming into your gun.  The further away the more the weight can lever your arms around.  Every movement your body makes is multiplied on the ends of your arms.  Ever seen a job crane rolling with a load at the end of the boom?  Tiny pothole in ground makes the load move huge amounts.  It also wants to lift the crane with the leverage & momentum of the weight.

Of course every person is different & your perfect position isnt mine but if you arent reloading as perfect as you want try what I wrote above & modify it until you get what you want.  If thats out at the end of your arms never moving your gun off target, so be it but I propose you start so close its uncomfortable & work to find your special spot.

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6 hours ago, DKorn said:

I had been taking Steve Anderson’s comments in his book about moving the gun the minimum amount needed to do the reload as my main focus and it might be what’s holding me back from more consistent reloads.

 

 

 

Steve Anderson is a great coach but he’s never won a national championship. Stoeger has half a dozen and in his class, in person, I was told low is fine. Consistent is key - just find a way to get it done reliably.

 

Quote

 

I’ve also constantly heard the advice from many shooters of “Don’t drop the gun so low”. 

 

Most of us leave the gun too low far too long. Hwansik is a great example of a low reload yet his gun is up and he’s on the sights a step or two before the next position.

 

The better you are at getting the gun up early, the less it hurts to drop it in the first place.

 

Quote

 

If I post a 10 second clip of my reloads, would you guys be willing to chime in about gun position or any other inneficiencies?

 

Bring it. Someone will be happy to help.

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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2 hours ago, Shadyscott999 said:

 

Good idea until you get bumped to open.  

Yep!

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167498 - Berrys Manufacturing, Inc. Campaigni.gif?e=eyJhdiI6NjIwNzgsImF0IjozMTUzLCJidCI6MCwiY20iOjEwMzIxNCwiY2giOjE0NDUyLCJjayI6e30sImNyIjoyODgzNjksImRpIjoiNTcyY2YxMGYxMmVhNGE4YWFlNTMwMDIzNzdjYjY2OGMiLCJkaiI6MCwiaWkiOiI5OGJiZDBjYTlmOTA0YjA1OGY5ZjJlMjY5YTUwN2ViZiIsImRtIjoxLCJmYyI6MzU2NzAwLCJmbCI6MTg1NzUxLCJpcCI6IjE3NC45Ny4xMTkuMTM5IiwibnciOjQ0NjYsInBjIjowLCJlYyI6MCwicHIiOjQ3MjIyLCJydCI6MSwicmYiOiJodHRwczovL3VzcHNhLm9yZy9ydWxlcyIsInJzIjo1MDAsInNhIjoiOSIsInNiIjoiaS0wN2Y0ODc0OTRmZTNjNGMyZiIsInNwIjoyMDc3Nywic3QiOjUxMTA3LCJ1ayI6InVlMS0yNjMzZTZiM2UyZGQ0OTgzYTY0NjMyOGY3NTZlM2MwOSIsInpuIjoxNzIxNjUsInRzIjoxNTIwNTU3OTEyODc1LCJiZiI6dHJ1ZSwicG4iOiJtdmxlYWRlcmJvYXJkdG9wIiwiYmEiOjEsImZxIjowfQ&s=DtD291CnQqtwBQnEw3SKuoBYRj4
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NROI Rulings

`
Rule Updated Effective Applies To Title
Appx D2 8 Jul 31, 2008 Aug 07, 2008 Pistol Are magazines considered components under the division requirements
Appx D2 Spec Jul 31, 2008 Aug 07, 2008 Pistol STI TRUSight
10.5.16 Nov 18, 2008 Nov 18, 2008 Pistol Drawing a handgun while facing uprange
10.5.14 Jul 14, 2009 Jul 14, 2009 Pistol Dropped gun
Appendix D2 and Nov 10, 2013 Nov 10, 2013 Pistol Limited/Limited 10
Appendix D4 Item Apr 16, 2014 Apr 23, 2014 Pistol Cosmetic finishes revisited
Appx D4 Spec Jun 02, 2014 Jun 02, 2014 Pistol Decockers at half cock
10.4.5 Aug 12, 2015 Aug 19, 2015 Pistol Accidental Discharge Upon Retrieval
5.2.6 Aug 12, 2015 Aug 19, 2015 Pistol Appendix IWB holster
8.7.4 Aug 12, 2015 Aug 19, 2015 Multigun Closed/Off Limits course of fire
8.7.4 Aug 12, 2015 Aug 19, 2015 Pistol Closed/Off Limits course of fire
MG 10.4.6 Aug 18, 2015 Aug 25, 2015 Multigun Accidental Discharge Upon Retrieval--Multigun
Appendix A3, def Sep 10, 2015 Sep 17, 2015 Pistol Facing Uprange
Appendix D4, #19 Sep 10, 2015 Sep 17, 2015 Pistol Trigger action requirements for Production Division
9.10.2 Sep 10, 2015 Sep 17, 2015 Multigun Paper Backup, Multigun
9.11.2 Sep 10, 2015 Sep 17, 2015 Pistol Paper Backup
Appendix D4 #22. Sep 10, 2015 Sep 17, 2015 Pistol Plastic Grip Plugs in Production division
10.3.1, 7.2.3 Sep 14, 2015 Sep 07, 2015 Pistol Safety infractions
5.2.5 and 5.2.5. Dec 01, 2015 Dec 08, 2015 Pistol Penalty for Non Compliance with Holster distance requirements
11.1.3 May 18, 2016 May 25, 2016 General Video use on appeals
6.1.1 9.4.5.3 May 18, 2016 May 25, 2016 Pistol Stacking Clarification
Appendix B5 May 18, 2016 May 25, 2016 Pistol Metal Plate Shapes
Appendix A3 May 18, 2016 May 25, 2016 General Definition of behind
N/A Dec 20, 2016 Dec 27, 2016 Pistol USPSA Production List Modification/Clarification
8.1.2.1, 8.1.2.4 Dec 30, 2016 Jan 06, 2017 Pistol Safety Application, alternative handgun ready conditions
4.1.1 Feb 27, 2017 Mar 06, 2017 General Official USPSA Licensed Targets
5.5.3, 10.5.15 Feb 27, 2017 Mar 06, 2017 Pistol Handgun Ammunition Restrictions
Appendices B2 B3 Feb 27, 2017 Mar 06, 2017 General Half Size Targets Updated
Appendix E2, Sho Apr 05, 2017 Apr 12, 2017 General SCSA Rules-Aiming points, positions
D4, 21.6 D7, 21 Apr 05, 2017 Apr 12, 2017 Pistol Replacement Hammers, Production and Carry Optics
2.2.3.3 Apr 05, 2017 Apr 12, 2017 General Wall Height
Cosmetic finishes revisited
×
Created: 
Mar 24, 2011
Effective: 
Apr 23, 2014
Rule: 
Appendix D4 Item
Applies to: 
Pistol
Ruling Authority: 
DNROI
Status: 
Released

Question: 
Can I paint a dot or arrow inside the magwell of my production handgun for a reference point and paint an arrow or stripes on my slide to help with alignment?

Ruling: 
No, a competitor may not paint dots, stripes or anything to help them reload or align sights quicker, cosmetic finishes only as per 21.2a "this clause is now interpreted to specifically allow refinishing the frame as well as the slide, subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage). Item 22 also goes on to say that the absence of an item in the list of prohibited modifications may not be construed to mean a modification is allowed. A modification is only allowed in Production Division if there is a rules clause or interpretation which specifically declares that it is allowed.
Edited by Sarge
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