Advice on COL, First time reloading

[Tantal]

Trying to get my new 1050 dialed in. Before I start making usable ammo I want to confirm a few things. 

 

First load I'm attempting: 

Bullet: Xtreme 147gr Hollow Point

Powder: VV N320 => 3.2gr

Primer: CCI Small Pistol

 

I have a friend shooting these at 1.142" COL, and that seems to go along with VV's website, however I have not found specific information for this load. I loaded up (10) rounds while dialing in the press, varying from 1.112" to 1.145", while 1.142" spins freely in my PCC, it will not spin in my CZ Shadow 2. I anything over 1.130 does not spin in my CZ Shadow 2. Is a COL of 1.130" acceptable for this load? 

 

The case is not perfectly round but measures between .377" - .378", I just want to confirm that is an acceptable crimp diameter. 

 

 

[GrumpyOne]

You are not actually crimping the bullet in the case, but simply just removing the bell/flair you put in the case before seating the bullet. A good way to measure that is measure the case wall thickness, multiplybthat by 2, and add the bullet diameter. So, if the case wall thickness is .011 and the bullet is .355, then your "crimp" would be .377.

 

As for your load, I would say yes. In your Shadow 2 though, i think you may have trouble making power factor with that load.  With a JHP in my Shadow 1, i had to load down to 1.085 to get it to spin in the barrel. 

[Tantal]

Understood. 

 

It sounds like there is some experimenting to do with setting COL. Is there a rule of thumb or a way to determine proper COL? At least for a safe starting point prior to running any rounds through the gun. 

 

My goal is to end up with a load that will work with both my PCC and my Shadow 2. PCC is running a ULW barrel. 

Edited February 12, 2018 by Tantal

[Hi-Power Jack]

30 minutes ago, Tantal said:

Is there a way to determine proper COL that will work with both my PCC and my Shadow 2. 

 

Best is The Plunk Test 

 

Take barrel out of both guns drop a round* into the chamber - it should

PLUNK, bottom out and still spin easily and drop freely when inverted.

 

Find The Longest that pass The Plunk Test, in both guns, and then subtract

a small amount.  Also necessary to check that they feed thru your mags (all

of them).    

 

  E.g., if 1.11" will plunk in both guns, reduce that OAL to

1.10" ...

 

Load up a few (10 -20) and take them to the range - make sure they shoot okay.

 

* I load up round with no primer or powder.

[Furrly]

You can always have the shadow 2 barrel reamed to except longer OAL,.. I did... Short OAL among Cz is very common.. 

[Tantal]

34 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

Best is The Plunk Test 

 

Take barrel out of both guns drop a round* into the chamber - it should

PLUNK, bottom out and still spin easily and drop freely when inverted.

 

Find The Longest that pass The Plunk Test, in both guns, and then subtract

a small amount.  Also necessary to check that they feed thru your mags (all

of them).    

 

  E.g., if 1.11" will plunk in both guns, reduce that OAL to

1.10" ...

 

Load up a few (10 -20) and take them to the range - make sure they shoot okay.

 

* I load up round with no primer or powder.

 

This is how I figured out 1.142 COL was too long. It wouldn't spin freely. I made some more rounds of varying COL. 1.120" is the threshold where rounds would spin easily. I dialed it back to 1.115". Measuring a Bullet, and the amount of powder in the case, vs how much of the bullet was sticking out, I was able to verify i'm not compressing the powder. I'm going to start at 1.115" and see what happens. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

7 hours ago, Tantal said:

  I'm going to start at 1.115" and see what happens. 

 

Just don't load too many of them to get started ...  and

make sure they feed in both guns.

 

Then, of course, you'll have to check the velocity and accuracy    

[TheStagePlan]

Also sort the head stamps on your brass. The COL will vary from different brands of brass. 

[stick]

Do you have a ramped barrel in your PCC?  A lot of PCC's have feeding issues with anything other than Round Nose bullets.

I don't know about CZ, but my PCC load is 1.130-1.135.  I just went back to sorting brass by head stamp, so my variance in OAL should decrease.

[CTJer]

3 hours ago, Wheelsonly said:

Also sort the head stamps on your brass. The COL will vary from different brands of brass. 

 

I never really understood why you’d need to sort brass by headstamp, other than maybe berdan primed.  But, after loading up my first batch of 9mm, those damn G.F.L stamps won’t chamber with the rest of my headstamps.   Perfecta is hit or miss too.  

[stick]

1 hour ago, CTJer said:

 

I never really understood why you’d need to sort brass by headstamp, other than maybe berdan primed.  But, after loading up my first batch of 9mm, those damn G.F.L stamps won’t chamber with the rest of my headstamps.   Perfecta is hit or miss too.  

You'll understand why when you load a piece of stepped brass and get this stuck in your barrel.  

[DRock]

I've got a collection of the stepped brass getting ready to be sent to X-Treme bullets for their brass rebate program. Easy to spot.

 

 

Dave

[TheStagePlan]

What’s the purpose of the step ?  From what I remember Tantals barrel is not ramped. Keep the hollow points for your shadow 2 and get some 147 Round nose for the pcc. 

[DRock]

I always assumed the step was for strength but it can act just the opposite when reloading them. If you don't know the step is there and use the same charge as non stepped the smaller volume of the case can caused increased pressure. That's when you start to run the risk of blowing out the bottom of the case. I would imagine if you're running a weak powder charge you could load them and never know the difference but I just set them aside with my reject brass.

 

Dave

[4n2t0]

How to determine a pistols max OAL

ALWAYS FIND YOUR OWN OAL!!! IGNORE THE OAL LISTED IN MANUALS AND DATA, IT'S USELESS!!!

Fit a new bullet into a fired case (just get it started and remember, no powder; fired primer). If you try 2 or 3 bullet/case combinations you'll find one where the bullet is a snug push fit. Working with your barrel removed from the gun slide this test cartridge into the chamber. Push the test cartridge until the mouth of the case comes to rest on the chamber stop. This will collapse the bullet into the fired case.







Slowly and carefully withdraw the test cartridge and measure its new length. Do this several times until you get a number that can be verified.



If your test cartridge gives you a number like 1.155", subtract .010" of setback (1.155"-.010"), which gives you a max OAL of 1.145" for that barrel/bullet combination.

Notes: 

- If you intend to use your ammo in multiple pistols make sure you load to the shortest OAL obtained. 

- Before making an armoury's worth of ammo make sure your rounds plunk and spin in the barrel(s) and that they function properly in the magazine(s).

- Every time you load a new bullet (e.g. Xtreme ---> Zero or Zero 124gr ---> Zero 147gr) you must perform this procedure. The max OAL will change from bullet to bullet because each bullet has its own unique profile.

[4n2t0]

The above was not my work, I just cleaned it up a bit. The information above was obtained from "The Original CZ Forum".

[abigger04]

That advice is on point. Thanks for posting that. 

[Flat4boxer]

On February 13, 2018 at 10:24 PM, 4n2t0 said:

How to determine a pistols max OAL

ALWAYS FIND YOUR OWN OAL!!! IGNORE THE OAL LISTED IN MANUALS AND DATA, IT'S USELESS!!!

Fit a new bullet into a fired case (just get it started and remember, no powder; fired primer). If you try 2 or 3 bullet/case combinations you'll find one where the bullet is a snug push fit. Working with your barrel removed from the gun slide this test cartridge into the chamber. Push the test cartridge until the mouth of the case comes to rest on the chamber stop. This will collapse the bullet into the fired case.







Slowly and carefully withdraw the test cartridge and measure its new length. Do this several times until you get a number that can be verified.



If your test cartridge gives you a number like 1.155", subtract .010" of setback (1.155"-.010"), which gives you a max OAL of 1.145" for that barrel/bullet combination.

Notes: 

- If you intend to use your ammo in multiple pistols make sure you load to the shortest OAL obtained. 

- Before making an armoury's worth of ammo make sure your rounds plunk and spin in the barrel(s) and that they function properly in the magazine(s).

- Every time you load a new bullet (e.g. Xtreme ---> Zero or Zero 124gr ---> Zero 147gr) you must perform this procedure. The max OAL will change from bullet to bullet because each bullet has its own unique profile.

 

Good information!