So these days for 9mm first reloading - single-stage or progressive

[RJH]

4 minutes ago, stick said:

I disagree.  Didn't the Op state he only shoots 9mm?  If he got the Dillon Square deal and decided to sell it, he wouldn't get burned on the resale.  

 

Everyone is only gonna shoot 1 caliber, till they got a stack of dies in the corner and a rifle and a .50 pistol they want to load for :-)  and the 550 can handle them all.  But I do agree he wouldn't get burned on the resale.  The cost difference is so little on these two presses, and the versatility so much greater on the 550, it seems the way  to go to me.  No one moves from a 550 to an SDB, but a lot of people move from an SDB to a 550

[TheStagePlan]

Actually the weird thing is the first shot through the chrono with 124 xtp’s with n320 out of my 5.5 inch Limcat chronographed at 1050 setting me @ 130 pf. 

[stick]

55 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

Everyone is only gonna shoot 1 caliber, till they got a stack of dies in the corner and a rifle and a .50 pistol they want to load for :-)  and the 550 can handle them all.  But I do agree he wouldn't get burned on the resale.  The cost difference is so little on these two presses, and the versatility so much greater on the 550, it seems the way  to go to me.  No one moves from a 550 to an SDB, but a lot of people move from an SDB to a 550

Very True!

[Loudgp]

I started on a lee loadmaster, priming off the press as well... worked great.. then got into shooting multiple matches a week... off to the blue side I went with a 650.. I like it... and can load fairly quick on it... comes down to price points as well...

[Roons]

Progressive. I started on a 650 and very happy I went that way first. Just go slow, very slow, which will still be faster than a single stage. 

[Beef15]

I loaded pistol on a single stage for a while because I had it, I started my reloading life with rifle. It was slow to the point of irritating, using a Lee Auto-disc powder measure took a little of the edge off combining two steps.

 

I now have a progressive, LnL, and wouldn't wish single stage pistol on anyone, I've added a case feeder and will probably add a bullet feeder this year.

Setting a bunch of dies at once is time consuming, but most don't need to be touched again. After that pay attention, especially to the amount of powder appearing in the case as there's no QCing it once a bullet is seated, and weigh a powder charge every now and then. Understand the first 10 or twenty will probably change as the powder in the hopper settles or fluffs with the press cycling. Don't force anything and ask questions of someone if you need answers. If you have a problem while loading where you don't finish a full cycle, clear the press, don't try to catch up, it's about the most likely way to double charge or not charge a case.

 

I like Blue and SNS bullets.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Beef15

[BlueBulletBeaker]

Dude, Dillon 550 all the way. You could probably find a used one easy. Once you have it, get you some Blue Bullets 147 RN, or my favorite, the 135 TC. Use coupon code 'heinrich' when you order to get a discount. https://www.thebluebullets.com/category-s/1829.htm

[motosapiens]

15 hours ago, BadShot said:

Could you buy a 550, use it as a single stage to learn on, and then use it as a progressive press when you are ready?

 

this is what i was going to suggest. i started with a single-stage, and i'm glad i did, but once i started competing it got pretty ridiculous. the 550 is a very versatile machine and if you spend a few days using it like a turret press, 1 round at a time and checking what you are doing, you will be able to step up to full progressivity pretty quickly.

[armydad]

Given you intend to load about 800 rounds of 9mm per month and given the good advice from those above, also consider the amount of time you have available for reloading, and will it be changing in the near future. How good are you from a mechanical perspective? Do you mind keeping both hands busy between pulls? There are other things to consider but this is what comes to mind from my experience. I researched this forum and reloading manuals extensively before I bought a press. I started on a 550 because I intended to load 9, 40 and at some point 223. The 550 is fantastic press, but I got tired of the manual indexing and wanted a case feeder. While Dillon makes a case feeder for 550, it gets mixed reviews and as I recall, more negative than positive. Wanting to be more efficient, I went to the 650 w/case feeder and thought I was in heaven until I added an MBF. I was tired of 223 case prep, and perhaps a lazy, but I got a deal on a 1050, mostly for rifle. I still use the 650 and my setup is over-kill, for the number of rounds I shoot these days, but I wouldn't trade any of the presses.

 

I've rambled, but hopefully, you can take something from my costly but enjoyable experiences to make the best decision for yourself. I'm glad I started with my 550, but if I had it to do again, I'd have bought a 650. Load development is no issue with it, and as long as you have some mechanical ability and this forum you'll be fine. It sounds to me like you are in the 550/650. Same is true for the 1050, but it probably doesn't make sense unless you plan to reload rifle. I don't have much spare time, so it is valuable to me crank out quality rounds quickly. And cost, it's a big issue but I think others already mentioned it.

 

Best of luck.

[Terry44]

Single or progressive? 

Progressive definitely.  Don't believe all the old Internet gab about starting with a single stage and moving to a progressive.  Reading  a couple reloading manuals and paying close attention is critical, but starting on a single stage is a waste of time and a decision you will regret.  

 

And any favorite 147s?

Xtreme plated 147s will be easy to learn on.

 

I started with a square deal B and 4 years later I wish I had a 650.  

[RJH]

8 minutes ago, 57K said:

 

 

 

And when was the last time someone loading with 550/LNL/650 quote you rounds/hour that included charging the primer tubes? Answer, NEVER!

 

My rounds per hour listed above on both the LCT and 550 did.  The 550 can be run very slowly at first (eve one round at a time) to get a feel for how it is supposed to be done.  manual index slows you down basically zero, and has some advantages to it.  also david tubb loads some of his match ammo on a 550, so accurate ammo can be done on a progressive too

 

Reloading is not rocket science.  When I started out, I learned by reading a book and haven't blown anything up yet.  If you pay attention, things work fine.

 

I have no experience with the 650 or 1050, so no comment there.  They seem nice but are out of my price range.

[RJH]

14 minutes ago, 57K said:

 

I had to go back to the 1st page. I see 100 rounds in 22 minutes with the LCT and 100 rounds in 15 minutes with 550. I must have some how missed the primer part cause I don't see it mention. either way, your talking about 128 whole rounds per hour, provided that you can fill your primer tubes 4 times because as I'm sure you know, having a LCT yourself, someone acclimated can load one of the Safety Prime primer trays in a minute or less. So lets see, with the LCT set-up I mentioned will run $330 using a very conservative estimate that's likely more than one will actually pay, so what's a 550 run these days?

 

550 is $479 and dies, yes they cost more, but not that much more.  If you can do 300 rounds in 66 minutes with the lee, you are good.  My arm starts to fall off at about 120, that is why I said that 100 in 22 min was not sustainable. So considerably more RPH and a happier arm. Rounds per hours always has to include loading primers, that is why I didn't mention it, maybe I should have.  Filling primer tubes takes about a 1.5 minutes so doing it 4 times takes 6 min or even if it is eight it is a nice break and is not an issue

14 minutes ago, 57K said:

 

Since your 550 doesn't have Top-Dead-Center where the LCT does, what kind of OACL variations do you get? I ask because several years when I was shopping, I had one of their reps try to sell me that +/- .010", or .020" total variation does NOT matter! Can you tell the difference between a CBC and a Blazer case by feel alone? When you have to do something during the load cycle, if necessary, you shut down production for a single case with the LCT and 4 for the 550.

  In my experience, OAL variations were always traceable back to bullet ogive variances, with both presses.  Match bullets and no issues. I take a peek at my brass before it goes on the press, so never had an with brass. If I need to stop, it takes 4 pulls of the handle to clear the press just like the lee.....

14 minutes ago, 57K said:

 

I get the David Tubb thing all the time. How much do you recon David Tubb makes for endorsing his Blue press. Was that his same procedure for any of the record scores he shot? Haven't heard much from him lately. And while you can load rifle on the 550, the LCT can be used as an effective single stage or manual turret press, and can be ran faster than LEE's claimed production rate by eliminating the auto-index parts where at several station the press handle doesn't need to be lowered more than halfway.

 

Not sure about his records, but he is still a badass in the accuracy dept.  Since the 550 is manual index, it can also be used as a single stage or a turret style.  I like the LCT and have loaded over 60,000 rounds on one and still use it, but the 550 is better in just about every way.  It was hard for me to accept for a while too

[MemphisMechanic]

I learned to load on a Dillon 650.

 

My only regret? Not buying / learning on a 1050.

 

Don’t let the progressive-haters scare you.

[MemphisMechanic]

Just now, 57K said:

 

 I'm not a hater, but neither do I ignore their deficiencies. I also greatly value quality vs. quantity.

 

Yes you do, and although that’s where our advice for reloaders always parts ways, I do respect you highly for it.

 

Cost/time and “how little work can I possibly do to hit X inch groups at 25yds” are the driving factors behind my mindset.

 

Reloading is a necessary task in order to shoot good ammo in high quantitites, in my mind. In yours, it’s both a passion and an art.

 

I do like reading your posts - I simply don’t share that passion.

[RJH]

Some how we have went from the OPs question about loading 9mm for USPSA to shooting quarter inch groups with 6.5 rifle, this is what I hate about the internet....

 

OP, the LCT is a good press.  The 550 would be better for what you are asking about.  The square deal would be OK if you were certain you would never shoot rifle.  Skip the single stage.  Good luck

[Kema]

I went to progressive Hornady LNL AP as a first press to load 9mm. Learning curve wasn't too bad. Bought multiple case plates and I have to praise Hornady's quick change system on dies. Mostly loading rifle ammo with LNL AP and bought a Dillon 1050 for 9mm only. I also use cheap single stage press for load development. Currently I am looking for a deal of Hornady single stage press with LNL die system.

It's really about number of rounds you are planning to load and time spent loading. Loading is also taxing physically and that's why I bought 1050.

 

 

[Sarge]

10 hours ago, 57K said:

 

Based on what, your vast accumulation of assumptions? Let me ask again, can you tell the difference BY FEEL ALONE, a CBC case from a Blazer case with your 550? what I hate most about internet "experts" is that about 99% of them couldn't give you the logarithm of 10 while someone shoots them the finger right to their face, While, therein lies the solution!

 

 

Pretty funny coming from a notorious Internet”expert”. I can tell the difference in brass from feel alone quite easily on a 650. That’s why I sort by headstamp. If something feels different on the downstroke, something is wrong. It’s not because of various brass dimensions.

  I used to load on a rockchucker 35 years ago. In those days we just plinked and blew stuff on Sundays. We loaded all day Saturday to shoot for an hour the next day.

Now, when I look back on it that was just dumb.

  Progressive loading is the only way to go if you shoot much at all. I would only consider a single stage for precision stuff or load development.

[Sarge]

54 minutes ago, 57K said:

 

Notorios Expert! I like it, LOL!

Today you load on a 650? So, with 5 cases going into 5 dies at the same time you can tell by feel what is occurring at the resizing station? Coming from you, somehow I'm not suprised! Maybe with your first case!

 

I really don't think anyone here is trying to sell the OP on using a single-stage press to make his competition loads. Going in whole-hog is not necessary either. I think we've established that 300 rounds are doable with the LCT maybe more with some better tools in the turret. While the same press operates extremely well as a single stage for making precision rifle loads. And again, no micrometer seating die needed since this press as well as the Classic Cast Single Stage and REDDINGs all have the Top-Dead-Center feature, and if you went from a Rockchucker to a Blue press, it's obviously something you know little about, AND your typical MO.

 

And, BTW, aren't you one of those guys who extol the virtues of running LEE dies on your 650?

I absolutely can tell when an odd piece of brass hits my sizer.

 And yes I think dies from LEE or any other brand are far superior to Dillon dies. But presses, not so much

[lfine]

Thanks again for all the info.  I'm sure many of you are right that in the future I'll want to work on some other calibers but right now and for the near future, its 9mm that I really want to be able to control the making of.  I don't want to underbuy, of course, but I'm not averse to buying one to learn on and then sell to get into my next one. As for mechanical aptitude and space, that's not a problem.

 

A lot of great info here, as I expected, and plenty to check out, which is why I like this forum so much.

 

Hoping to go see some in the flesh (or metal) this weekend to get a better feel for the models you're talking about.  

[kneelingatlas]

I started reloading on a friend's 550, I then bought a 650, then an automated 1050, switched the bullet feeder to the 650 and sold the 1050.  Now I load on my case fed and bullet fed 650; I can't imagine loading on single stage ?

 

If you don't want to spring for a 650, I recommend a 550 or at least a B Square.

[stick]

10 hours ago, Sarge said:

I absolutely can tell when an odd piece of brass hits my sizer.

 And yes I think dies from LEE or any other brand are far superior to Dillon dies. But presses, not so much

I agree with Sarge.  After years of loading on my 650 with Lee dies, I can feel the difference when a bad case is in station 1.  It's hard to explain, but it feels different.  As for the 380 cases i occasionally pick up, I notice them when my Mini Mr bullet feeder doesn't drop a bullet head onto the case.

[kneelingatlas]

The handle drops without resistance with a 380 case in station one, the case flips out of station two or does drop a bullet in station three, of course you can feel it ?

[Chris Keen]

You all don't sort your brass BEFORE it goes into your case feeders? 

 

I look inside every piece of brass for dirt, mud, rocks, .22 shells, etc. Then I weed out the .40s and .380s before they even hit my press.  Saves me time later fishing them back out, or stopping to insert another piece of brass. 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Chris Keen

[Ray_Z]

If you're just starting out in reloading I'd get a Rockchucker master reloading kit. Even after you've switched to a progressive press, in the future you'll still use it for stuff like resizing bottleneck cases or swedging primer pockets. Then, after a year or so, go to a Dillon 650. You will end up with a progressive press but you need the time on a single station press to learn how to "feel" it when something goes wrong. Like a case splitting when resizing or a loose primer pocket. Those are only a couple of things I can think of off the top if my head.

[CGH]

 I load 300 - 400 rounds per week of 9mm, 38 and 357 ( about what i shoot) on a Lee Classic Turret. It's a great press to learn on as you can use it as a single stage press whilst learning and, as 57K has mentioned, you can produce a lot of rounds and watch the quality control aspects as well.