.40 or .45 Single stack?

[DsWright]

Been shooting .45 Springer RO for several years now, started doing single stack with it last year.  Biggest problem with reloading for .45 is that only a few people at a match shoot it, but everybody picks up .45 brass it seems...  Always buying brass to keep up with it.

 

The .40 appeals to me for that reason alone really, .40 brass is plentiful, and my reloading cost would go down, which means i can shoot more.

 

How do they compare with each other from someone who has both?  I may be looking to replace my Range Officer soon with another yet to be determined 1911.  I shoot major only.  If i want to shoot minor i would get a 9mm as a second gun for that specific purpose.

 

So considering getting a .40 instead of .45 for Major.

Thoughts?

[mont1120]

I shoot both SS and L10, and much prefer the .45 over the .40. Yeah, I'm getting long in the tooth and all that, and have been shooting for 50 years, but there is a big difference in how each caliber recoils. I am not getting into an argument on which is less, but the issue is how the gun reacts to your grip and arms. The .40 is faster and moves quicker, the .45 is slower and I guess the word is rolls in your hand instead of the snap.

 

That is where I would make my choice. Try shooting the .40 and see if the recoil suits you. Certainly the .45 is more expensive to reload, I shoot 230 grain 99% of the time. I lowered cost by going to Blue Bullets, and even picked up PF with the gain in velocity. With my STI Eagle in .45, I even dabble in Limited and find I am only 2-3 rounds less then a .40, but it has no effect on scores. Got to reload somewhere on the stages.

 

So, my 3 cents worth, stay with what makes you the better shooter. Cost is certainly a factor for competitors, and .40 brass is plentiful. The .45 costs .11 for the bullet, .05 for the brass, the .40 is .09 for the bullet, and .02 for brass. That makes it $8 plus primer and powder for the .45 per 50, and $5.50 plus primer and powder for the .40 per 50. The difference in cost is $2.50 per 50, and say you use 150 rounds a match, the cost difference is $7.50. You use less powder for the .45, but now we are really splitting hairs. That cost is worth it to me for the ability to shoot the platform that works the best for my use.

 

I will also add when I shot the Iron Sight Nationals this year, the RO's were always pointing out "Hey,there's a .45 shooter". I think there were all of 2-3 of us. In the equipment survey, we .45 shooters were less then 1% of the field. Oh well, sometimes its fun to be the weird guy.............

[DsWright]

Thanks for the insight.  I have never tried .40 in years or the 1911 platform in .40 and was curious if it would be worth it.  I agree with you on snappy recoil.  I tend to prefer 230 in .45 and 130ish in 9mm to get more of a push recoil into my hand than a snappy muzzle rise.  So I really may not like it and end up wasting money, maybe even more than the reload cost difference.  I will have to see if I can get my hands on one and try it.  Thanks

[Bigzeke]

I have shot SS major with both 45 and 40. Currently shooting 40 in a Trojan. The change to 40 happened for me due to getting a LTD gun in 40, made it easier to have 1 load/reload for 2 divisions. 

 

The recoil is different between the two, but preference is subjective. 

 

Reload cost for me is about the same. Bullets cost about .01 more for 45. Brass recovery is the issue. My local matches are pretty good with brass picking, so that slows loss rates down. I have also found sources for buying once fired brass at 5.5 cents for 45. Buying 40 will still run you 3.5 cents. Overall, .03-.05 more to reload 45.

 

At the reloading cost, it would take 20K to 40K rounds just to make up the cost of buying a 40.

 

 

[perttime]

The weight and balance of the particular pistol can also change things. When I tried an IPSC Standard .40 that had some weight forward, I first thought it must be a 9mm, instead.... Much less movement than my .45.

[kimberacp]

The endless debate:)    Here is my take on this topic.      Other than the brass...reloading costs are the same.    I shoot Zero bullets in a 40sw now but but I use to shoot 45.

Checking bullets prices both are the same or close to it per 1000.     You do get more of the 40 per 1000.   Powder and primers, same cost.  Only the brass is the price difference.   But that's such a small factor.     If you were to shoot in Limited division, than switching over makes sense, which is what I did.

Where I live in California. 40 SS gun are very hard to come by, you almost have to build one up.     If I were shooting only SS or L10, I would just shoot 45s, they are a "dime a dozen" here in California.

True, the recoil impulse is different but so what!     Shoot what you got, get good at...period.   Understand that concept and you'll go a long way in this game.

JMO

 

 

[BlueBulletBeaker]

I understand that getting a SS gun to run .40 can be an adventure. The load, magazines, barrel ram/throat, extractor, etc. has to be set up just right for reliability. So it is important that the gun be built as a complete system by someone who knows what they are doing.

 

I run .45 for this reason. I don't want to ever have a gun that I have to fight with. I own six .45 SS guns currently and all of them run without issues. 

 

The upside of .40 is that you can load both major and minor ammo for the same gun. Tripp makes .40 mags to accommodate both. Then when you get to a match, you can determine which you PF makes the most sense to shoot. Further, if you shoot limited, you can share ammo between your division rigs. 

 

Here's a video that explains some of the reliability concerns like bullet stacking. 

 

 

[zzt]

I have both.  Now, the only time I shoot 45 in a competition is when I shoot bullseye.  Why?  Several reasons.  First is the cost of brass.  Every USPSA or club match I shoot is essentially a 'lost brass' match.  Even if the club permits you to pick up brass, I can't.  I'm either ROing or Scoring.  I buy spotlessly clean, processed 40sw brass for 3 cents each.  I could pick up all I wanted at the practice ranges, but I don't want to spend the time sorting and cleaning.  So you could get all your 40 brass for free if you wanted to.  45 ACP brass is a lot harder to find for free and much, much more expensive when you do.  I spent 8 cents each for the once-fired brass I use for bullseye.

 

The second reason is double tap speed.  It is much faster with 40 than with 45.  Yes the recoil feels different.  It is a little harder to the hand, but the muzzle rises less and you get the second shot off faster.  The difference between 2 second splits and 3 seconds is 30 seconds on a long stage.  I don't want to give that up.

 

Thirdly, it flat out costs less to reload 40.  Fourth, You can run 40 Major with ease, but can also load to Minor and still have flawless function.  That gives you 8 in a mag for Major, or 10 for Minor if the match layout favors it.  You also get to shoot the same gun (Minor) for Steel Challenge.  BTW, 40 Miinor shoots softer than a 9mm at the same PF.

 

Chances are you will use either a 180 or 165gr bullet for Major.  If you want a close approximation of the differences in recoil feel and speed, load 180s in your 45 and try them.  As I've progressed in my competition career, I've gravitated to lighter bullets.  I'm faster with them.

[IsaacB]

Be honest here: Does anyone reallllly truly trust their SS 40 to run 100% when shooting minor?

 

Not trying to be a smarty pants here: it just seems like it gets touted as being this great upside to 40...until another thread pops up asking how to get the first two rounds to feed from a 10 round mag.

 

Do we have anyone with enough rounds through their 40 to say that they personally trust their rig enough that they would drive to a major match and not have any concerns about feeding all 10 rounds through a mag every single time?

 

I still have another month until I get my SS 40, so I personally have zero experience with it. Just curious.

[JayDee]

1 hour ago, IsaacB said:

Be honest here: Does anyone reallllly truly trust their SS 40 to run 100% when shooting minor?

 

 

Yes. I've shot 45, 40 and 9 through 1911s. At present I only own 2 competition 1911s, both are 40 cal. One is sprung to shoot minor loads with a 10# recoil spring. The other shoots major loads with a 12# spring. Both pistols are reliably boring.

 

To the OP, there seem to be fewer 40 cal 1911s available than there once were. It sounds like most of the LEO and consumer market is moving toward 9mm, so manufacturers are less keen to push 40, IMHO. That also means that you can find some good deals on used 40s.

 

Here is why I like shooting 40 Single Stack:

- can be loaded major or minor, and you get to load only with small primers

- major loads are quite manageable 

- minor loads are delightful: minimal recoil, accurate, fast splits.

- Tripp 10mm, 10 round mags w/ modified base fit the USPSA box, no more barney mags, except when shooting minor.

- I load the same 40 recipe for SS & Limited

- cheaper than 45 (brass and bullets)

- lots of available brass

 

@BlueBulletBeaker I somewhat agree that 40 can be more tricky to reload than some other pistol calibers, but after a little work, I've found major and minor recipes that are super reliable in multiple guns. I've had good luck with 40 in 3 1911s. The major issue that I ran into was shooting Glock'd brass. Now I sort my head stamps and purge anything with a rectangular firing pin mark on the primer. I do use a full length size die and a Lee factory crimp die. With these steps, only 1-2% of my reloads fail the chamber check. All of these rounds are used in practice and still run 95% of the time. 

 

 

[BlueBulletBeaker]

@JayDee, might want to get you a Lee Bulge Buster to take care of that remaining 1-2%. It is cheap and effective. I was skeptical, but it really clears the Glock bulge issue right up. Great for .40 and .45. Will work for 9mm too if you use the 9mm Makarov die.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Model-LP90487-Bulge-Buster/dp/B005KW5F3K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1516214449&sr=8-1&keywords=lee+bulge+buster

[GunBugBit]

I know Tim Graves (local young accomplished gunsmith and shooter) likes to build his SS guns in .40.  He built one for himself and one for his dad.  Ten rounds with the right mags and basepads, can load major or minor, what's not to like?

[motosapiens]

trying to set up a gun to run both major and minor sounds like the stupid sort of thing someone's wife would come up with to prevent him from getting another gun. The whole point is to own MORE guns, not fewer. If you want to run 40, at least be a man and get 2 of them, 1 for major and 1 for minor. (you can always swap springs on them to have a backup).

[RJH]

3 hours ago, zzt said:

  The difference between 2 second splits and 3 seconds is 30 seconds on a long stage.  I don't want to give that up.

 

 

 

I don't understand this statement, 2 or 3 second splits?  30 seconds difference in a stage based solely on caliber? I must be be missing something,  I could shoot an open gun and a ss gun and not have 30 seconds difference on a stage. 

 

To the op, doesn't matter, both have pros and cons. Unless you plan on losing a lot of brass, I like the 45, but the 40 Is good too. 

[motosapiens]

3 hours ago, zzt said:

The second reason is double tap speed.  It is much faster with 40 than with 45.  Yes the recoil feels different.  It is a little harder to the hand, but the muzzle rises less and you get the second shot off faster.  The difference between 2 second splits and 3 seconds is 30 seconds on a long stage.  I don't want to give that up.

 

 

It sounds like you are doing something terribly wrong. Admittedly, I'm only a garden variety A/M shooter, but I have found no significant difference in splits between 45, 40 major and 9 minor except in the case of very close hoser arrays like 'can you count', where the 9mm allows me to split .01-.02 faster.

 

Doing dot drills (6 shots into a 2" circle at 6 yards in 5 seconds), i have virtually identical results between the 3.

[tanks]

3 hours ago, zzt said:

...

The second reason is double tap speed.  It is much faster with 40 than with 45.  Yes the recoil feels different.  It is a little harder to the hand, but the muzzle rises less and you get the second shot off faster.  The difference between 2 second splits and 3 seconds is 30 seconds on a long stage.  I don't want to give that up..

 

What game are you shooting that you are having 2 second splits?

[MikeBurgess]

4 hours ago, zzt said:

 

The second reason is double tap speed.  It is much faster with 40 than with 45.  Yes the recoil feels different.  It is a little harder to the hand, but the muzzle rises less and you get the second shot off faster.  The difference between 2 second splits and 3 seconds is 30 seconds on a long stage.  I don't want to give that up.

 

Oddly I tend to shoot .14 splits with a 45 on hoser targets and the same .14 splits with a 9mm on the same targets, also oddly it doesn't really matter if its a 1911 or a GLOCK, Single stack or open gun, I think that's how fast my finger can go.  Yes each and every one of those guns feels different but that doesn't matter.

[Bigzeke]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

trying to set up a gun to run both major and minor sounds like the stupid sort of thing someone's wife would come up with to prevent him from getting another gun. The whole point is to own MORE guns, not fewer. If you want to run 40, at least be a man and get 2 of them, 1 for major and 1 for minor. (you can always swap springs on them to have a backup).

 

I know this man personally. He is a terrible influence on your bank account. ?

[Steppenwolf]

I just received the latest FrontSight issue. The Nationals Ironsight Limited/Limited 10 equipment survey noted only 2% use .45 and the vast majority use .40. That differs from previous years where .45 was favored a bit more than .40 than in the past. (can't remember the numbers). Interesting change.

 

 

Corrected: Meant to say .45 was favored more than it is now, not favored more than .40 for Limited/L10 in the last few years.

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Steppenwolf
Correction

[motosapiens]

7 minutes ago, Steppenwolf said:

I just received the latest FrontSight issue. The Nationals Ironsight Limited/Limited 10 equipment survey noted only 2% use .45 and the vast majority use .40. That differs from previous years where .45 was favored more than .40 (can't remember the numbers). Interesting change.

 

 

 

 

 

only reason to shoot 45 in l10 is if all you have is a 1911 in 45. Only reason to shoot l10 *at all* is if all you have is a 1911 and it's too far to drive to a real singlestack match. I personally shot L10 with a 45 at nationals in 2013 for exactly those reasons. 

 

Now if you look at the SS nationals, you'll see alot more 45, but still plenty of 40, especially among guys who also shoot limited. not having to mess with multiple loads, changing press, etc.... is a real benefit.

Edited January 17, 2018 by motosapiens

[Steppenwolf]

Good point about L10. I've never seen anyone shoot Limited 10 at the three USPSA clubs in our area. I still see mostly .45 in SS, but 2 or 3 guys are running SS .40. Guess I've got to get out in the real world more.

[motosapiens]

oh, 1 more reason to shoot L10, if your duty weapon is 40 or 45 and wouldn't be competitive in limited. I've seen a couple LEO's around here do that, but most just get a gamer gun and don't worry about it.

[ltdmstr]

I don't really understand the comments re: 40 being more recoil than .45 or .40 having reliability issues.  Recoil is going to feel different for a number of reasons, but .40 is not "worse" than .45.  And if snappy gets you back on target faster, that's certainly not a bad thing.  The reliability issue is solved by having your gun built by someone who knows what he's doing.  I've built dozens and all run 100%.  It's not difficult.

[zzt]

3 hours ago, RJH said:

 

I don't understand this statement, 2 or 3 second splits?  30 seconds difference in a stage based solely on caliber? I must be be missing something,  I could shoot an open gun and a ss gun and not have 30 seconds difference on a stage. 

 

 

Forgot the decimal point.  The difference is about 1/10th of a second, with 40 being faster.

[RJH]

17 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

Forgot the decimal point.  The difference is about 1/10th of a second, with 40 being faster.

 

Figured it was something like that :-)  I have  not, for my self, been able to see any difference in splits from one caliber to another, but if that is the case for you, then 40 sounds like the way to go for you.