How short can I load 9 major?

[spininfirec]

Just joined the open game with a 5" KKM barrel on my CK arms hardcore.  I tried some of my buddies major loads.  With montana gold 124 and RMR 124 loaded at 1.155 OAL, they are too long for my chamber.  Ive been through this with a limited gun, my first thought is to ream the chamber so I can run whatever I want.  Or I can mess with different projectile options and OAL's.  I know I can go fairly short with my 9 minor gun.  How short can I go with 9 major.  I currently have winchester autocomp powder.

[Yardbird]

I load MG 124s and WAC at 1.145.

[NoSteel]

Personally, I think finish reaming the chamber will be your best bet..  You can run shorter on a 2011 platform but why?  It will allow you more flexibility when working up your loads ( my WAC 124g fmj  load is @ 1.155).  

Edited January 15, 2018 by NoSteel

[Flatland Shooter]

I think you could get by with just a 9mm throat reamer.  Less chance of enlarging the chamber too much.

 

Both of my open guns have been throat reamed and I run 125 MG JHP at 1.165".

[Steelix]

CK arms has been known to have short chambers of n 9mm. There has been others on here that have reamed them. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

3 hours ago, Yardbird said:

I load MG 124s and WAC at 1.145.

I used to go down to 1.145" with 115 gr MG JHP's and HS6.

 

No problem.

[drewbeck]

I run 115’s with AC at 1.125” and 124’s with AC at 1.135” and have chrono’d 175+ at majors without pressure issues.

 

i have spacers in mbx mags as well as run mbx without spacers and have no issues.

 

I typically load zeros or coated lead and find coated to feed more reliably and smoother than jacketed but give up .25”-.50” roughly in group sizes at 25 yards which is insignificant to me in this game.

 

try shorter and see pay attention to what happens. If there’s issues change it, if not don’t be afraid to go with it.

[al503]

I'd get it reamed.  The longer the OAL, the lower the initial pressure spike.  It would probably be hard to quantify but your pistol will probably last longer with a longer OAL.  

 

I load 124 MG JHP's at 1.2", which is almost 38 super/SC length.  

[gng4life]

I would be careful, I'm sure you know this but pressure is not linear. Because we are already close to the limits of a 9mm case, I would work it up very slowly if you decide to go that route. Personally, I would have the chamber lengthened. Just solves so many problems. And usually you get better feeding reliability with longer OALs for 9mm rounds in 2011 platforms.

[TeedOff]

I got a CK Thunder open gun last spring. The chamber was very short, to I send a note to Matt Cheely who had me send the barrel and a dummy round loaded to the length I wanted to run...in my case 1.165”. He throated it and had it back to me inside a week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kneelingatlas]

Not all 9 major components are created equal, so how short it 'too short' is a question only you can answer.  My question is why add all that pressure just to avoid a few twists of a reamer?

 

Generally speaking, shorter OALs increase pressure, so do heavier bullets, and faster powders; JHP typically can't load as long as RN bullets so if you don't want to read you could switch and pick up some OAL.

 

I've shot major loads using 124s at 1.12" but with a much slower powder (SP2).  How long can you load with what you have?

[theWacoKid]

There's a lot of talk of reaming the chamber and lenthening the chamber. That's not what you want to do. You need to ream and lengthen the throat. It'll fix all your problems and more. 

[spininfirec]

Thanks for all of the responses.  I didn't mention my only hold back to reaming the chamber is the barrel has already been nitrited, which to my knowledge will make this process much harder.  I mentioned this to my gunsmith and he wasn't overly excited because of this. Anyone have any problems getting the chamber worked on because the barrel was already nitrited?

[spininfirec]

8 hours ago, TeedOff said:

I got a CK Thunder open gun last spring. The chamber was very short, to I send a note to Matt Cheely who had me send the barrel and a dummy round loaded to the length I wanted to run...in my case 1.165”. He throated it and had it back to me inside a week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1) Was your barrel nitrited on that gun?

2) what does he charge for that?

[TeedOff]

31 minutes ago, spininfirec said:

1) Was your barrel nitrited on that gun?

No

31 minutes ago, spininfirec said:

2) what does he charge for that?

If I remember right he only asked for $5 to cover return shipping.

[zzt]

I agree throat reaming is the answer if the chamber is correct.  I buy Go Gauges for every caliber I shoot.  It the chamber gauges good, throat ream.  If not, finish the chamber and then throat ream.  I'm going through this right now.  The 1911 I just finished has a Barsto 45ACP barrel.  When the hood was finished the Go Gauge was even with the top of the hood.  Normal length rounds fail the plunk test, so I'm sending it out for throat reaming.  Since it's a straight walled case, I may also have the chamber lengthened by a few thou.

 

I'd be really careful about reaming a taped case chamber.  That's why you need to buy or borrow a Go Gauge.

[kneelingatlas]

8 hours ago, spininfirec said:

Thanks for all of the responses.  I didn't mention my only hold back to reaming the chamber is the barrel has already been nitrited, which to my knowledge will make this process much harder.  I mentioned this to my gunsmith and he wasn't overly excited because of this. Anyone have any problems getting the chamber worked on because the barrel was already nitrited?

 

That's a horse of another color, I've destroyed a reamer on a nitride barrel
 

If that's the case, the question is not "how short can I load 9 major?" because the OAL is a given, so the question is "can I make major using my components and not blow out primers or cases?"

So I suggest you figure out what your max OAL is, back down to a safe charge and work your way back up using a chrono; I suggest using SPP over SRP so you get a good when the pressure is getting scary.  The easiest thing to switch if you're not getting there is the bullets, RN are much more forgiving in short throats.  If it were me I would be shooting 115gr RN over HS6; I'd bet that combo makes major at a short OAL without even flattening SPP.

[superdude]

spininfirec, what OALs will fit in your chamber?  Please indicate which bullets you're testing this with. Maybe members will have suggestions. 

[racer-x]

spininfirec, 

You said your barrel is "nitrited". Just to be clear, what color is your barrel?

The gold is probably TiN (Titanium Nitride), while it is probably PVD if it's black, or some other color. Both are very hard surfaces to ream without a special carbide throat reamer.

 

My two CK Thunder Open guns are black PVD and couldn't be throated by either of two different S7 tool steel reamers I tried. I ordered a carbide throater and it did the trick effortlessly.

 

Here are the loads I developed prior to getting the carbide reamer though. Should be spot on for your gun(same as mine), although you should still work up to them to be careful. I recommend the HS-6 over the WAC since it shot flatter and is the slower of the 2 powders. Primers were not flattened excessively with these loads, but that indicator is only worth so much.

 

Montana Gold 115 JHP @ 1.130 (172PF)

HS-6 8.6

WAC 7.4

 

For what it's worth, I recommend you talk with Matt about getting your barrel throated so you can load longer loads ASAP. I throated mine so that a MG JHP loaded to 1.120 OAL just contacts the lead - won't spin freely in chamber. 

[racer-x]

spininfirec, 

You said your barrel is "nitrited". Just to be clear, what color is your barrel?

The gold is probably TiN (Titanium Nitride), while it is probably PVD if it's black, or some other color. Both are very hard surfaces to ream without a special carbide throat reamer.

 

My two CK Thunder Open guns are black PVD and couldn't be throated by either of two different S7 tool steel reamers I tried. I ordered a carbide throater and it did the trick effortlessly.

 

Here are the loads I developed prior to getting the carbide reamer though. Should be spot on for your gun(same as mine), although you should still work up to them to be careful. I recommend the HS-6 over the WAC since it shot flatter and is the slower of the 2 powders. Primers were not flattened excessively with these loads, but that indicator is only worth so much.

 

Montana Gold 115 JHP @ 1.130 (172PF)

HS-6 8.6

WAC 7.4

 

For what it's worth, I recommend you talk with Matt about getting your barrel throated so you can load longer loads ASAP. I throated mine so that a MG JHP loaded to 1.120 OAL just contacts the lead - won't spin freely in chamber. 

[S&W686]

I have two CK Arms Open Guns and on both I run an O.A.L of 1.165-70.  I have not had any problems doing so. 

[racer-x]

14 minutes ago, S&W686 said:

I have two CK Arms Open Guns and on both I run an O.A.L of 1.165-70.  I have not had any problems doing so. 

 

If they pass the plunk test with those loads, no worries.

 

If not, initial pressures will be much higher than necessary with the bullet starting out pressed into the leade. That's OK for bullseye, but an extra risk factor with 9 major.

[CocoBolo]

What ever happened to checking the primers?  Is your load ok or not the primer will tell you. LOL 

 

I've loaded 1.145 with some powders, but others where you have a compressed load won't work, like 10gr of Accurate 7.

 

Use once fired brace once, keep an eye on the primers, and you should be ok.  Check all range pickup with a magnet, some brass isn't brass.

 

 

[spininfirec]

20 hours ago, kneelingatlas said:

 

That's a horse of another color, I've destroyed a reamer on a nitride barrel
 

If that's the case, the question is not "how short can I load 9 major?" because the OAL is a given, so the question is "can I make major using my components and not blow out primers or cases?"

So I suggest you figure out what your max OAL is, back down to a safe charge and work your way back up using a chrono; I suggest using SPP over SRP so you get a good when the pressure is getting scary.  The easiest thing to switch if you're not getting there is the bullets, RN are much more forgiving in short throats.  If it were me I would be shooting 115gr RN over HS6; I'd bet that combo makes major at a short OAL without even flattening SPP.

How much is a reamer?haha  I have $5K in the gun now so...  I dont want 5K in the and cant run any of the loads I want. 

 

[spininfirec]

15 hours ago, racer-x said:

spininfirec, 

You said your barrel is "nitrited". Just to be clear, what color is your barrel?

The gold is probably TiN (Titanium Nitride), while it is probably PVD if it's black, or some other color. Both are very hard surfaces to ream without a special carbide throat reamer.

 

My two CK Thunder Open guns are black PVD and couldn't be throated by either of two different S7 tool steel reamers I tried. I ordered a carbide throater and it did the trick effortlessly.

 

Here are the loads I developed prior to getting the carbide reamer though. Should be spot on for your gun(same as mine), although you should still work up to them to be careful. I recommend the HS-6 over the WAC since it shot flatter and is the slower of the 2 powders. Primers were not flattened excessively with these loads, but that indicator is only worth so much.

 

Montana Gold 115 JHP @ 1.130 (172PF)

HS-6 8.6

WAC 7.4

 

For what it's worth, I recommend you talk with Matt about getting your barrel throated so you can load longer loads ASAP. I throated mine so that a MG JHP loaded to 1.120 OAL just contacts the lead - won't spin freely in chamber. 

I dont know if it is nitride or not.  I thought H&M did the gun and they do black nitride.  Who is Matt that can throat my barrel?