sasquatch981 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Decided to load some 9mm today, and came up with about 16- rounds out of the first 60 loaded that look like this. Very frustrating. Dillon 650 DIllon sizing die Dillion seater die Lee Taper Crimp die This all happens at the seating station. I have set the crimp per the manual at 1.10" I have loaded with the seating die insert set to "both" sides of the bullet profile and it does with both. The factory crimp makes them look a little better, but still have the muffin top. What could it be? There is no insert in the seating die that can be adjusted other than the profile doodad that is either set to one side or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) Increase the flare. Those look like plated bullets. Without more flare they just roll the plating up Edited January 13, 2018 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickT Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 It's a little concerning that your mixing crimp and OAL, but if this is happening during the seating process you don't have enough flare on the case prior to seating. The powder measure funnel/case expander looks to be the only way on a 650 to increase the case bell so I would gradually reduce the powder measure height until the bullet can be seated without damaging the plating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Yup just what they said^^^ also my understanding is you likely see accuracy increase with lesser crimp too... Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Odd looking brass color, what kind of casing are you reloading? Are you possibly trying to reload poly coated steel casings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Check those with a magnet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudyVey Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 7 hours ago, HesedTech said: Odd looking brass color, what kind of casing are you reloading? Are you possibly trying to reload poly coated steel casings? Agree, they truly look odd, way too dark for brass (unless it is aged outside .....), they look more like coated steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mont1120 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 They look like lacquered steel cases. Almost too shiny to be old brass cases, but with pics I could be wrong. What does the stamp on the bottom of the case say? If they are brass, I'd suspect the flare is too small, so I would expand it a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 The reason why I’m asking about the metal composition is steel may not bell easily and when a bullet is pressed, especially with plated, the steel will not give and expand suffiencently thus pressing the plating (or coating) up the lead core. If you’re not sure, as it has been written, use a magnet to check. I have actually had brass plated steel cases and they get rejected. The problem showing is really odd, even for not having enough bell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) Those are not brass cases, how long have you been reloading? Edited January 15, 2018 by 9x45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80clay Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 On 1/13/2018 at 3:14 PM, sasquatch981 said: Decided to load some 9mm today, and came up with about 16- rounds out of the first 60 loaded that look like this. Are the other cases the same color? Or are all 16 out of the 60 look like this? Like mentioned above, it looks like you're mixing steel with brass cases during reloading. The steel cases are not turning out while the brass cases (the other 44) are turning out correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasquatch981 Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 I have been reloading for the past 15-years or so. The cases are definitely brass. Mixed head stamp, federal, win, etc. They have old case lube on them, and have not been through the wet tumbler. The color is off from the phone and the shop light. I never had this problem with MG's, but with the new bullets, and some moly-coated bullets started having this issue. I'll try more bell tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 9 hours ago, sasquatch981 said: I have been reloading for the past 15-years or so. The cases are definitely brass. Mixed head stamp, federal, win, etc. They have old case lube on them, and have not been through the wet tumbler. The color is off from the phone and the shop light. I never had this problem with MG's, but with the new bullets, and some moly-coated bullets started having this issue. I'll try more bell tomorrow. Yeah, true Jacketed you hardly have to flare much at all. If you switch to coated or thin plated you have to flare quite a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken6PPC Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 It is also much better if you can seat and crimp in separate dies. Most reloaders that I know using coated or plated bullets go to using separate dies for seating and crimping, sooner or later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 5 hours ago, Sarge said: Yeah, true Jacketed you hardly have to flare much at all. If you switch to coated or thin plated you have to flare quite a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasquatch981 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Thanks guys, it appears to be a bell issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4n2t0 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Just out of curiosity what "new bullets" are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joedirt199 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I would use 2 steps to seat then crimp. When doing at the same time in the same die, the crimp starts before the bullet is fully seated and pushes the plating up like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench459 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Odd I never crimp 9mm. Just resize Bell Close bell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench459 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 This is only with 9x19 cases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 12 hours ago, wrench459 said: This is only with 9x19 cases My cd (Dillon) is set to .379/.380 for 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 3 hours ago, 57K said: If the plated bullets are .356" D. all you need to do is remove flare and bring the case-mouth to "neutral" D. You can do that without detriment when you're seating bullets so long as the case-mouth isn't trying to dig into the bullet. I would not use a LEE FCD with over-diameter bullets in particular (I wouldn't actually use them, period). To find what the "neutral" case-mouth D. should be just measure case thickness within 1mm of the case-mouth, double that dimension and add the average D. of the bullets you're loading. I would assume that to be correct if one sorts head stamps as the sum would change with each different head stamp, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench459 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Finally, neck tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 15 hours ago, 57K said: Yep, to get the least amount of variation for case-mouth D. and OACL. Most American made brass is pretty close to the same and add to that Fiocchi, GFI and a few others. One of the reasons I use the .0015" dimension for 9mm taper crimp is because even within a single brand case-wall thickness can very by 5 ten-thousandths, or .0005", so things tend to even out, and then there's some variation cause by slightly different length cases. CBC, PPU, Aguila, S&B of late and REM with the new headstamp will be thicker, and there are others. If you're using .355" jacketed bullets, seat and crimp in separate operations if you're going to taper crimp. For .356" bullets the extra .001" of D. translates into greater case-neck tension. So long as the seat/crimp die is set only to remove flare and set the case-mouth D. to it's neutral position, it won't have any effect on OACL since the case-mouth isn't trying to bite into the bullet as it's being seated. Bingo, thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mont1120 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 20 hours ago, IGOTGLOCKED said: Bingo, thx! Add Tulammo and Perfecta to the list of really thick brass in 9mm. Just last night I neglected to sort those out of my loading steps, and with 147 grain Blue Bullets, I was getting the awful bullet bulge near the middle of the brass. Didn't even come close to chambering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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