Brass shavings from Lee FCD?

[Xanatos903]

I'm having some issues with my loads and I want to get it sorted out rather than just trying to treat the symptoms, so I'm turning to the great minds of Benos. I can't figure out a solution, so any input would be nice. 

 

I've been loading on a Hornady LnL for a little over a year now, and I've loaded just over 10k 9mm since I got it. I think since the beginning, I've had a couple rounds per 100 that wouldn't pass the case gauge because the mouth of the case seemed too large. My fix was to simply increase the crimp on my Hornady seat/crimp die which would work, but then I'd end up with a couple/100 with a bullet being crimped by the case. There seemed to be no in between. I checked my sizing die, made sure it was sizing all the way down, adjusted my flaring die so that it flared only just enough for the bullet to be loosely held in place, played with the seating/crimp die, etc. The mouths on the cases with this problem clearly still flare out a little bit. 

 

There seems to be no correlation between the problem and these variables:

 

1. Headstamp. Federal, CBC, Geco, PPU, PMC, Blazer, et. al have all done it)

2. Bullet choice. I'm using RMR 147gr plated RN, which are .356" at the base, but it's happened with basically every bullet I've used. 

3. Die settings. I probably haven't tried everything, but all the logical things don't seem to make a difference. 

 

I haven't tried sorting brass by length and seeing if it makes a difference, but I really don't want to have to do that every time I pick up a random case at the range. Anyway, my solution was finally just to get a Lee FCD and hope that it solved the problem without introducing any other problems. I set it up according to Lee's instructions (screw in die body until it touches shellplate, screw down mandrel until I feel resistance).Everything passes my case gauge now, but the FCD seems to be shaving my cases, leaving me with brass shavings all over my press. Everything comes out of the press with a mouth diameter of .378", but some cases are still getting torn up. Here's a picture of what the worst-offending cases look like:

 

 

If you have any ideas feel free to share. If I could get everything to work without having to use the FCD, that'd be great, but that may be a pipe dream. Anyway, thanks in advance for any input you've got. 

Edited January 13, 2018 by Xanatos903

[techj]

My 2 cents are that you don't have the expansion set to the right amount of flare - too much and you will get brass shavings on some seating dies and definitely on the crimping die, not enough and you'll get shavings from a plated bullet (cutting through the plating).

 

With separate seating & crimping, definitely make sure that your seating die is NOT doing any crimping.  On your FCD (I use them for all of my handgun loads) only crimp enough to let you pass the plunk test.  

 

Since you have range brass, I would take brass that is in "good" shape and run it through the sizing die.  Confirm that the brass you sized will pass the gauge.  Run the case through the expansion die and verify the opening size vs your bullet diameter.  Even if you know what they should be recheck as you will get some variances in both cases and bullets...57K had the right info for what the measurements should be. 

 

Then after seating, setup your FCD so that there is no crimp and run it through the die.  After that slowly increase the crimp into you get the correct diameter at the case mouth and it passes your gauge and the plunk test.

 

If that works and it looks good you should be good-to-go.  When I find a round that doesn't pass the gauge it put it into my practice only ammo pile as I have not found any yet that would not still run in my firearms...but I don't want to find out during a match.

Edited January 14, 2018 by techj

[Xanatos903]

Excellent input, guys. 

 

I'm going to double check that my seating die isn't also crimping at all, set it to remove flare, and then set the FCD only to the point where my rounds pass the plunk test. Some of the variables probably just got crossed when I was setting up the dies to accommodate the FCD, so I'll go back to the start and follow your advice. 

 

 

[HesedTech]

It’s the FCD making your deeper set bullets tapered by taking out the bulge from the bullet setback. Use another crimp die, only crimp enough to remove bell, do not leave ring/dent on bullet where the crimp is and except the bulge. As long as the bullets will plunk test in you barrel you’re good to go. 

 

Use the Hundo gauge as an alternative to your barrel as long as the OAL is correct for it. 

 

I use::

 

I use Dillon 650,

their 9mm die set

147 gr Precision Delta FMJRN

OAL 1.14

mixed brass (yes CBC works fine)

 

Out of about 20k of rounds very few failures to gauge. 

 

Tried FCD initially to “fix” a problem and all it did was swage my bullets (using B.B. 147 at the time) causing ballistic issues. 

[Xanatos903]

Hmm, I need to take a batch of these out to the range and see how they shoot. I've gotten the FCD set to where it doesn't seem to be shaving brass off the case anymore and rounds are coming out at .377-.379 at the mouth, everything passes the case gauge. 

 

However, as I'm using oversized plated bullets, I'm afraid that I might run into accuracy issues like you're talking about. 

[HesedTech]

46 minutes ago, 57K said:

I do not use case-gauges because ultimately, your pistol's chamber is the most significant gauge.

 

I did the same up till recently. While it worked well, after thousands of rounds I got tired of checking every single round one at a time in my barrel. Someone on this forum mentioned the Hundo case gauge, how it is actually more restrictive than most barrels and gauges, and it checks 100 at a time. I bought one and two thumbs up it has sped up the process. Now I barrel check a new load for OAL and then use the Hundo for the case checks with no need to check each round one at a time in my barrel. It's worth the $100+

 

 

Here's my 147gr PD FMJRN, OAL slightly less than 1.14 Sig brass. Notice bulge, even with bulge they check and shoot perfect.

 

Entirely Dillon 9MM dies

 

Powder Funnel used for bell is Double Alpha from Mr. Bullet Feeder. (I went from hand placement to Mini-Mr Bullet to the full deal, works really well!)

 

Crimped to just get rid of bell.

 

OAL sized for my Son's CZ 75 SP01 and Shadow 2, my Tanfoglio S II, The most restrictive barrel is on the CZ 75 SP01.

 

Hope this helps

[Sarge]

4 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

 

I did the same up till recently. While it worked well, after thousands of rounds I got tired of checking every single round one at a time in my barrel. Someone on this forum mentioned the Hundo case gauge, how it is actually more restrictive than most barrels and gauges, and it checks 100 at a time. I bought one and two thumbs up it has sped up the process. Now I barrel check a new load for OAL and then use the Hundo for the case checks with no need to check each round one at a time in my barrel. It's worth the $100+

 

 

Here's my 147gr PD FMJRN, OAL slightly less than 1.14 Sig brass. Notice bulge, even with bulge they check and shoot perfect.

 

Entirely Dillon 9MM dies

 

Powder Funnel used for bell is Double Alpha from Mr. Bullet Feeder. (I went from hand placement to Mini-Mr Bullet to the full deal, works really well!)

 

Crimped to just get rid of bell.

 

OAL sized for my Son's CZ 75 SP01 and Shadow 2, my Tanfoglio S II, The most restrictive barrel is on the CZ 75 SP01.

 

Hope this helps

Exactly! I only use the barrel when developing a load. After that it’s Hundo all the way! The trick also is to know what gauge failures still work fine in your gun. 

[4n2t0]

Are you sure it's not your sizing die. Regardless, brass flecks are getting embedded in either your sizing die or the FCD. Grab some steel wool and clean the ring(s) then polish the ring(s) with Flitz or similar.

 

Here's a picture of what to look for...

 

[CocoBolo]

One of the smartest things I did was to rid my reloading bench of all Lee Dies, including the FCD's.  And the undersize dies as well.   Been there done that.

 

Borrow a set of Hornady or Dillion dies and you will know what I am talking about.

 

You are always going to have a few out of a 100 that won't drop check, I use to size and drop check before loading and that took too much time.  Then I got a case pro and rolled them all first.   Now I just throw the rejects in a box, and when it gets full I run them loaded thru the case Pro, most size down, but then you have a few that don't.

 

Always check 9 mm range brass with a magnet, some are brass coated steel. 

 

I have a LNL and a Dillon 650.  I had two 650's and sold one and kept the LNL it is just so versatile, and when adjusted properly can perform just a well as the 650, and you can do more things with it.  That said if brute force isn't working to seat primers, you just aren't using enough.

[zzt]

I'm about to load 9mm, so this is interesting.  I use a LnL with all Hornady dies plus Lee FCDs.  I don't get shavings on 40 or 45 cases, and the use of the FCD all but eliminates Glock bulges.  Instead of 10-20 per hundred that would not chamber check, it is down to 1 or 2.

[MemphisMechanic]

On 1/16/2018 at 3:01 PM, CocoBolo said:

One of the smartest things I did was to rid my reloading bench of all Lee Dies, including the FCD's.  And the undersize dies as well.   Been there done that.

 

Borrow a set of Hornady or Dillion dies and you will know what I am talking about.

 

I had that mindset for a long time. Now my press is Lee at first and last station, and Dillon all the way across in between.

 

Dillon’s sizer does not size far enough down the case for me. A lee die with an aftermarket bombproof decapping pin is a great thing. No E-clips to break, either.

 

I personally also have a FCD set up to crimp only, and it’s been left like that since it was less work than sticking some other crimp die back in.

Edited January 19, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[HesedTech]

Here's what I find I like about the Dillon sizing dies:

They are a bit more tapered where the casing enters it. This seems to cause a few less "bumps" for the not so perfectly centered case in the base plate. If the case is basically good without too much bulging near the base it works well. I also like the spring loaded decapping pin and how much easier it is to remove if needed.

 

What I like about Lee sizing dies:

Price.

They offer undersized sizing dies, which I would use as an alternative to the Dillon.

 

The FCD for 9 MM is basically not really worth it. What it does is "fix" issues that really are an indication of poor reloading practices, especially when using coated or plated bullets. As has been written about in thread after thread one must pick a bullet size, diameter, and shape that works in the gun being reloaded for. 

 

I had no clue when I started reloading that many bullets just don't work as well as others. I read advise after advise, tried many ideas (including the FCD) and finally figured it out, make sure the dies do not deform the bullet in any way, pick a powder and bullet you like and stick to them, minimize the crimp so it does not dent the bullet and test every round in some way to make sure it fits. Oh and make sure the primers are fully seated (before you load the powder and bullet, not after).

[Miranda]

.... all for 147 dollars.

gotta think about that set.

 

I have a memory of this problem in another thread

The conclusion I understood was that case lengths have to be well controlled to seat AND crimp in one step.

 

the  other problem is separate... the FCD will swage fat bullets.

I can state this second problem is true... as I like to run fat lead bullets

 

fat bottom girls, you make the rockin' world go 'round

 

miranda  

 

[HesedTech]

4 hours ago, Miranda said:

fat bottom girls, you make the rockin' world go 'round

 

Queen!!!

 

showing your age. 

 

The guy guy that wrote that has a doctorate in Astro physics. Or something like that. 

 

So Doctorate people write songs and we write about dies. 

 

Hmmmm

[Miranda]

the source of lyrics are quite varied...

you never know where the fat bottoms and rockin' may have come from....

you just think you know.

hohohohohohohohohohohohohoho

 

yeah, I don't believe it either.

:-D

in any case,  I hum the song while loading.

 

miranda