Ssanders224 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Going to drop one of these In my G34 for CO. Legal right? https://hyvetechnologiesbuilder.com/index.php/product/gen4-extended-mag-release/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcw1987 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 If its legal in production then its legal in CO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blschultz Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 looks like it should be legal. looks like it would be same size and shape as a factory one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) Did the carry optic rules get updated since 2/17? (if they were they aren't on the website) If it's not a glock part and it's externally visible it's illegal? So not legal for carry optics or production. "A factory/OFM magazine release which extends only the length of the magazine release may be used. A magazine release which provides a larger surface area (paddles, buttons) may only be used if it is an OFM part available on an approved model of gun." "Sights, firing pins, firing pin retainers, pins, extractors and ejectors MAY be replaced with OFM or aftermarket parts. Any other components which are externally visible may ONLY be replaced with OFM parts which are offered on the specific model of gun or another approved gun from the same manufacturer except as specifically clarified below. Examples of external components which may only be replaced with OFM parts include (but are not limited to): magazine releases, slide stops, thumb safeties and triggers." Edited January 11, 2018 by Kraj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Kraj said: Did the carry optic rules get updated since 2/17? (if they were they aren't on the website) If it's not a glock part and it's externally visible it's illegal? So not legal for carry optics or production. "A factory/OFM magazine release which extends only the length of the magazine release may be used. A magazine release which provides a larger surface area (paddles, buttons) may only be used if it is an OFM part available on an approved model of gun." "Sights, firing pins, firing pin retainers, pins, extractors and ejectors MAY be replaced with OFM or aftermarket parts. Any other components which are externally visible may ONLY be replaced with OFM parts which are offered on the specific model of gun or another approved gun from the same manufacturer except as specifically clarified below. Examples of external components which may only be replaced with OFM parts include (but are not limited to): magazine releases, slide stops, thumb safeties and triggers." I agree. My post was somewhat rhetorical. There seems to be an interpretation out there (even on the forums) that an aftermarket release, with the same surface area as the OEM release, is legal. Springer Precision seems to think their extended 320 release is legal.... and at least one well known CO shooter uses it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Looking at their website, Springer's interpretation is that if they are manufacturing a duplicate to the factory release that only changes the length, then it's legal. By that definition, the one the OP wants to use would be legal, too. Not how I interpret that section, but SP evidently cleared it with NROI for Production Division and therefore for CO. They better be making some published rule changes soon. This aftermarket parts issue for Prod/CO is getting ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, JAFO said: Looking at their website, Springer's interpretation is that if they are manufacturing a duplicate to the factory release that only changes the length, then it's legal. By that definition, the one the OP wants to use would be legal, too. Not how I interpret that section, but SP evidently cleared it with NROI for Production Division and therefore for CO. They better be making some published rule changes soon. This aftermarket parts issue for Prod/CO is getting ridiculous. Exactly my point. I don't care what Springers interpretation is, or what answer they got privately from USPSA.... They are in fact, making and AFTERMARKET part, and selling it as production legal, which flies in the face of the current rule book. There is zero difference in their release, and the one I posted in the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Works for hammers, why not for mag releases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 Judging by what it says on their website, Springer obviously has a very loose interpretation of what OEM/OFM, and aftermarket is. They first quote the rule book which is very clear: "A factory/OFM magazine release which extends only the length of the magazine release may be used." Then go on to say: "We specifically make an factory release that extends the length only per the 21.6 rule. It is specifically allowed and verified by NROI for use in the Production Division." To my knowledge, Springer Precision and Sig have no corporate ties, and SP manufactures no parts that are factory installed by Sig on Sig guns? So no, they do not make a "factory release" any more than Hyve makes a factory Glock release, or Dawson makes a factory STI release, or Zev makes.... etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 You can extend the length, but not the surface area. My suggestion that was adopted into the rulebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Gary Stevens said: You can extend the length, but not the surface area. My suggestion that was adopted into the rulebook. That is not what the rule book says. It is actually very clear in that the magazine release MUST be an OFM part. "Examples of external components which may only be replaced with OFM parts include (but are not limited to): magazine releases, slide stops, thumb safeties and triggers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcw1987 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 ya it seems kind of weird with aftermarket hammer and barrel bushing being legal in some production guns but it looks like to me that magazine releases haven't been add to the exception....yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, coolcw1987 said: ya it seems kind of weird with aftermarket hammer and barrel bushing being legal in some production guns but it looks like to me that magazine releases haven't been add to the exception....yet Obviously some think it has..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Gary Stevens said: You can extend the length, but not the surface area. My suggestion that was adopted into the rulebook. Yeah, you can extend the length, but the rule has always been interpreted as you can do it provided there is a factory/OEM extended release available on another Production list gun from the manufacturer. Want an extended release on your G17? No problem, order one from Glock for a G34. The NROI ruling: "As long as the internal parts of the hammer used as a replacement function identically to the internals on the OFM hammer, replacing the hammer is allowed, despite the outward appearance." has opened the door to a lot of parts that were never considered legal before. It's not possible for someone to know by looking at an aftermarket part, which looks nothing like OEM, that it functions the same as OEM. It's unenforceable unless it changes something drastically, and then you need to be familiar with the gun model in question. And it seems that the logic that was applied to hammers in the ruling is being applied to triggers and mag releases, even though the ruling was specific to hammers and did not make any suggestions that it would apply to other parts. If they want to move the rules in that direction, fine. But update the rules or the ruling to reflect it. Don't allow people to add their own interpretation of a ruling that doesn't give that flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, JAFO said: Yeah, you can extend the length, but the rule has always been interpreted as you can do it provided there is a factory/OEM extended release available on another Production list gun from the manufacturer. Want an extended release on your G17? No problem, order one from Glock for a G34. The NROI ruling: "As long as the internal parts of the hammer used as a replacement function identically to the internals on the OFM hammer, replacing the hammer is allowed, despite the outward appearance." has opened the door to a lot of parts that were never considered legal before. It's not possible for someone to know by looking at an aftermarket part, which looks nothing like OEM, that it functions the same as OEM. It's unenforceable unless it changes something drastically, and then you need to be familiar with the gun model in question. And it seems that the logic that was applied to hammers in the ruling is being applied to triggers and mag releases, even though the ruling was specific to hammers and did not make any suggestions that it would apply to other parts. If they want to move the rules in that direction, fine. But update the rules or the ruling to reflect it. Don't allow people to add their own interpretation of a ruling that doesn't give that flexibility. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, JAFO said: Yeah, you can extend the length, but the rule has always been interpreted as you can do it provided there is a factory/OEM extended release available on another Production list gun from the manufacturer. Want an extended release on your G17? No problem, order one from Glock for a G34. Not entirely accurate. USPSA Handgun Rules, A factory/ OFM magazine release which extends only the length of the magazine release may be used. A magazine release which provides a larger surface area (paddles, buttons) may only be used if it is an OFM part available on an approved model of gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Sarge said: Not entirely accurate. USPSA Handgun Rules, A factory/ OFM magazine release which extends only the length of the magazine release may be used. A magazine release which provides a larger surface area (paddles, buttons) may only be used if it is an OFM part available on an approved model of gun The rule has already been posted a couple of times. But I'm wondering what in that rule you think is at odds with what JAFO stated? His post is a pretty literal description of what that rule states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 Bottom line is... Under the current rules, an aftermarket mag release of any size, dimension, length, etc... is SPECIFICALLY forbidden. So why is there at least one aftermarket manufacturer claiming their mag release is legal, and that the NROI approved it? And at least one well known shooter using one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Ssanders224 said: The rule has already been posted a couple of times. But I'm wondering what in that rule you think is at odds with what JAFO stated? His post is a pretty literal description of what that rule states. The rule specifically says only those with more surface area must come on an approved gun on list. Extended only does not. I have had an extended springer mag release on my Production XDM since the week I bought it. Been approved for a long time. CO rule says same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, Sarge said: The rule specifically says only those with more surface area must come on an approved gun on list. Extended only does not. I have had an extended springer mag release on my Production XDM since the week I bought it. Been approved for a long time. CO rule says same thing Sorry, but no. What are the first three words of the rule you posted? A FACTORY/OFM.... Also, there’s this little tid bit straight out of the appendix, and in this case the most prudent.... “Examples of external components which may only be replaced with OFM parts include (but are not limited to) : MAGAZINE RELEASES, slide stops, thumb safeties and triggers.” (Emphasis added) Wether you like it or not, your springer release fly’s in the face of the current rules. If NROI “approved” Springer releases privately, well, that’s pretty messed up, and once again, is absolutely not in accordance with the current rule book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtturn Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I have had an extended springer mag release on my Production XDM since the week I bought it. Been approved for a long time. CO rule says same thingWelcome to open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, wtturn said: Welcome to open. Naaaa, he’s good. It’s been “approved” for a long time. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Ssanders224 said: Naaaa, he’s good. It’s been “approved” for a long time. ? Exactly! When DNROI “approves” it’s “approved”. Edited January 12, 2018 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 32 minutes ago, wtturn said: Welcome to open. Nah, I use Open guns for Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Sarge said: Exactly! You could easily prove your point by providing the official ruling that says your aftermarket mag release is legal.... you know, since the current rule book SPECIFICALLY says it is ILLEGAL. I mean seriously, are you just choosing to ignore that part of the rule book? Edited January 12, 2018 by Ssanders224 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now