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boudreux

Shot Reload Shot Times

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What is a good time from shot, reload, to next shot? I've done some searches but can't find out much info. I've been shooting limited for about a year after shooting production for several years. Today I picked up my production gun and was doing it anywhere from 1.3-1.5. This is with and A or C hit so not spraying and praying. What do GM's do it in? 

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Posted (edited)

From holster? Or just time between shots? What distance to target?

 

Figure a second or so on the draw to 1st shot, and then another second or so to the 2nd shot. Surely under 2.5 is fairly doable.

 

The "fast" drill(or some variation of it), if I recall correctly, something like draw and put 2 on a small target(head or index card), slide-lock reload and put 4 in small target again was pretty doable under 4 seconds.

Edited by wgj3

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Yes from holster, production rig. Just say 7 yds 

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The best reload at 7 yards I ever did when I was active* was around 1 second in October 2016.  That was using a Production rig. 

 

I made this video in July 2016, draw-shot-reload-shot @ 7 yards in 2.33 seconds.  1.01 draw, 1.29 reload.

 

* The last match I shot was October 2016.  Life happened and I didn't even shoot a gun in 2017 until the week before Christmas.  I am getting back into it, but I know I've lost a lot.

 

 

 

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I wasn't able to find a "shot reload shot" on youtube, but 4 Aces is a popular drill that incorporates a reload (start around 2:32 if it doesn't queue up properly below)

 

GM

Draw: 0.74

Shot 2: 0.17

Reload: 0.88 

Shot 4: 0.16

Total: 1.95

 

One close C. 

 

Another GM

 

Draw: 1.10 

Shot 2: 0.20

Reload: 1.10 

Shot 4: 0.23 

Total: 2.63

Edited by Rez805

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Stoeger states in his dvd a reload of 1.1 - 1.2 is pretty good on 4 Aces.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Draw, shot, reload, shot. Total time 1.58 sec. So far, thats about my fastest for that.

I've topped that 4 aces in the video with a 1.89 sec. run

Edited by TimH

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Sigh.... The one day I go sleeveless, I decide to film something. 

.84 reload, but should prob be a bit faster with a Limited gun. 

 

 

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A long time ago I was talking to a well known pro about this drill, to which he remarked that he had ran it in a time so unbelievable that he didn't like telling people because they'd hardly ever believe him. After some pushing he said the attempt was a .49 draw and .50 reload for a .99. I don't wanna put him on the spot here by naming him, but he's never given me a reason to doubt his word before.

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B class shooter, my best at four aces with pcc is right at 2.2ish. Thats after about 4 live fire and quite a bit of dry fire practices. I am having a hard time getting my splits faster .

 

 

.59 draw, but stock on belt 

.18 2nd

1.25 reload

.18 last shot

 

was hitting 2.2-2.3 pretty consistent  unless I muffed the reload lol

Hope to keep pushing it down but more concerned with transitions, movement and hitting steel/covered targets with first shot at this point. But it sure is a fun drill ;)

Edited by noexcuses

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My best one reload one ever was a 1.37. 0.66 draw and a .71 reload. 4 Aces I have gotten down into the 1.8s, if I remember right. Recently with my lack of dryfire, both the draw and reload have been suffering--last Friday in practice the only 4 Aces I shot was a 2.34 at 10 yards, down 1. 0.98 draw, 1.0something reload. 

 

Moral of the story? Never put off your dryfire. 

Edited by Gooldylocks

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I am still trying to wrap my head around the fascination associated with ultra fast one shot draws or shot to shot reloads. Can people sling lead down range while performing gun handling actions at a rapid pace? Absolutely. Does either of these skills produce meaningful "Match Day Results"? Absolutely Not. At the most these ultra fast draws or reloads will yield a 2 - 5 match point advantage verses a solid 1 second execution of either skill. Blowing your grip or missing the magwell while going full retard will hurt your score dramatically more than 2 - 5 match points. Not to mention shotgun blast type hits on the targets. 

 

Is it cool to watch? Sure. Do these skills define who is winning matches? No. You guys can waste a bunch of time training useless skills and I will keep working on skills that actually benefit match day performance. We will see how it all works out when the match results are posted.

Edited by CHA-LEE

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You ever read something and wish you had said it?  Charlie is 100% correct, and I even have a video of me running it above!  In fairness I recorded that for another thread on here where someone else asked and I haven’t tried since.   I learned that trying to shave a tenth off a draw or reload when my transitions, entry’s, and exits were crap was a fools errand.  In the video above I was in match mode, plain and simple.  I want tangible, repeatable skills and match points; not insta-star likes.  

 

 

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It's very simple. A 1.2 reload in a match is going to feel way different to someone who's best reload in practice is 1.1 than it is to someone who's best reload in practice is .6. And that principle is true for any skill that gets used in USPSA. You aren't practicing a .6 reload because you want to do a .6 reload in the match. You're practicing a .6 reload to extend your comfort zone and hopefully learn something that you might not have learned had you never pushed that pace. No one is saying do hyper fast draws and reloads to the point of exclusion of skills that make up a higher representation of your match score. Do both. Always try to expand your ability. Don't ever think a skill is good enough. Of course we want to eliminate weaknesses, but we also want to bolster strengths. Is it actually useless to train draws and reloads at the limit of your ability to function, or is the benefit just not in your face obvious from the outside so it gets easy to overlook? 

 

Even if the only benefit were fractions of a second, shaving a tenth here or 5 hundredths there is no a fools errand in a sport where hundredths of a second can be the difference between winning and losing. This is even more true in Open where you see the highest form of speed and accuracy that exists. Not everything you practice is going to have a gigantic impact on your scores, but many tiny improvements over time will add up just as well.

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All true.  My fool errand comment was aimed at myself.  I spent 4-6 weeks working on draws and reloads at the exclusion of other weaknesses.  I was literally chasing a tenth while I had 0.5-0.6 second weaknesses hanging in my face.  The whole low hanging fruit thing.

 

So it was only a fool errand in that I was trying to improve my match scores without addressing real weaknesses I saw at every match.  

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3 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

I am still trying to wrap my head around the fascination associated with ultra fast one shot draws or shot to shot reloads. ...At the most these ultra fast draws or reloads will yield a 2 - 5 match point advantage verses a solid 1 second execution of either skill. ...

 

But, in order to have the "solid 1 second execution" does not one need to be comfortable doing it faster in training?

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22 minutes ago, tanks said:

 

But, in order to have the "solid 1 second execution" does not one need to be comfortable doing it faster in training?

 

Absolutely............ When we train we must push our skills to failure to observe how or why we are failing and make the proper corrections.

 

The point I was trying to make is that we can waste a crap ton of training time and effort trying to generate "BOSS STATUS" draws and reloads when in reality those skills really don't have much overall match points value when competing in USPSA events. As I stated before, these high risk draws and reloads, usually only produce a 2 - 5 match point gain potential. On top of that you have to consider when deploying those skills at that speed is even presented as an opportunity within a stage to exploit. The majority of the USPSA stages that I have shot have zero opportunity to exploit a sub 1 second draw or reload simply because we are moving into the first shooting position on the draw or moving between positions while reloading. That or the targets are of a shooting difficulty which requires more than a sub second amount of sight refinement to ensure a quality hit will be produced. Do these stages or shooting scenarios exist? Absolutely. But they are by far the exception verses the norm. 

 

What I do see regularly are shooters wasting untold training time and effort trying to shave a tenth or two off of their draw or reload when they are wasting several seconds on each stage using poor movement. If you are losing several seconds on every single field course due to poor movement skills there is NO WAY you are going to Draw or Reload faster to make up that lost time. I guess it just blows my mind how shooters have such a hard time identifying skill issues that have a dramatic negative impact to their overall match performance. I guess moving more efficiently to save 2 - 3 seconds on each stage doesn't look as sexy on YouTube as smashing a sub 1 second draw or reload?

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True. I think the emphasis on draw and reload is mostly due to the classifiers as that can significantly impact one's score. Until recently I did not practice much on reloads for the reasons you mentioned. That being said accomplishing the reload during first step or so and hauling ass to the next array is much faster for me then ambling to the next array while slowly reloading ;). It has cut a few seconds off my stage times just by making that change. For me it was a low hanging fruit.

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Aaaaaannnnnd Charlie shows up and acts like a xxx. Big surprise there. 

 

Just because I want to have a sexy sub-1 second reload doesn't mean I don't also work on moving efficiently or shooting on the move to shave 2-3 seconds off per stage. You act as though those things are mutually exclusive, which they very clearly are not. I can practice crushing my .6 par time reloads all evening in the comfort of my living room, then go to the range and shoot a whole bunch of movement drills in live fire. 

 

Just as Jake said, if I can crush .7s in practice, then when I get to a match and do a 1.1 it is going to be 100%. 

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Stating facts is acting like a Dick? You and Jake have a different perspective on this stuff because you both can formulate and deploy effective training plans. The sobering fact is that most shooters can’t do that for some strange reason. If the majority of the people on this forum could do that on thier own then 99% of these type of threads wouldn’t even exist.

 

These threads usually distract shooters from the skills that really matter. I am simply trying to reinforce that fact.

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I actually started the thread just to see what a good time was. Has nothing to do with the ability (or lack of) to put together a practice plan. Skills that matter? Reloading between shots seems to be part of our sport, at least it is for me. Not all transitions are several steps which give plenty of time for a reload. Time can be made up with this skill (whether it be 1 second or 4 or 5+) over the course of a match. In a local match where the classifier is a stage it can have an even bigger impact. Also it’s valuable for those wanting to improve classifier scores. It was a very straight forward question which could be answered easily or ignored. 

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11 hours ago, Gooldylocks said:

Just because I want to have a sexy sub-1 second reload doesn't mean I don't also work on moving efficiently or shooting on the move to shave 2-3 seconds off per stage. You act as though those things are mutually exclusive, which they very clearly are not.

 

for you, they are not mutually exclusive. however it is obvious that many people do actually waste too much time working on the wrong stuff. At your level you should be working on finding a tenth *anywhere*.  I think most people would be better served spending a little less time on mechanical manipulation (but not ignoring it), and a little more time on visual skills and movement skills.

 

IMHO, you, jake and charlie are all correct.

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35 minutes ago, boudreux said:

I actually started the thread just to see what a good time was. Has nothing to do with the ability (or lack of) to put together a practice plan. Skills that matter? Reloading between shots seems to be part of our sport, at least it is for me. Not all transitions are several steps which give plenty of time for a reload. Time can be made up with this skill (whether it be 1 second or 4 or 5+) over the course of a match. In a local match where the classifier is a stage it can have an even bigger impact. Also it’s valuable for those wanting to improve classifier scores. It was a very straight forward question which could be answered easily or ignored. 

You should pick Stoegers skills and drills book. If you don't have it already.  It has GM times for a lot of things. IIRC, 1.2 sec is about the GM time for what your asking at 10yds. Though, he does say that each drill can be done even faster. But it gives you a benchmark. 

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