Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Practicing Draw - point of diminishing returns?


RickT

Recommended Posts

Super Senior shooting Steel Challenge.  I have (re)committed myself to improving my draw with dry fire.  During my sessions I'm starting with super slo-mo draws and working my way down.  On my bucket list is a consistent 1.5 second draw with my 1911 and, yes, I know that's slow, but I'm not greedy.  So, I'll start at 10 seconds, 5 reps, and work my way down to 5 seconds in 1 second intervals, then 5 to 3 second draw in .5 second intervals, 3 to 2 in .25 second intervals and then down from 2 on .1 second intervals.  Adjust as necessary with 5 reps at each par time

 

Let's say I feel my mechanics starting to deteriorate at 2 seconds.  Not that I wouldn't hit a target but not quite the support hand grip I need for a good string.  Should I stop the drill at that point since going any faster will defeat the purpose of the drill?  Shooting Smoke and Hope I'll get on the first target in 1.5 seconds or so, but the reality is that the grip I get at that speed can compromise the rest of the string.

 

I can get by on the draw target with some slop in the mechanics, but most of my subsequent misses are caused by a weak/misplaced support hand which affects my transition mechanics and on-target sight alignment .

Thanks,

Rick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Me personally (only my opinion), I would train right through the mistake. Build up the muscle memory to correct the grip as fast as possible. You may not have the fastest draw but maybe having a fast reset of your grip will help. In a match you're not going to be able to restart because you messed up the draw and I don't know any shooter, pro or amateur, that gets a perfect draw 100% of the time. As soon as the buzzer goes off everyone's minds go to mush and it's that muscle memory that saves you. So practice for the fast draws but work through the mistakes without stopping. Just my opinion

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would skip all those slow draws, I never want to do a slow draw in a match so why train doing it. Once you have the mechanics down just keep working on getting faster. If I'm going to start "slow" it's only going to be a tenth or two under my normal par time. Seems like you're wasting of training time to me.

 

It sounds like you're training yourself to get a perfect grip slowly. You're doing a lot of slow reps and should be doing more at the speed the wheels start falling off. Once you can nail the grip at that speed you need to drop your par time. Don't increase the part time to master a slow draw.

 

Does that make sense?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RickT,

 

FWIW, I had a similar issue.  I was dry firing a lot to work both on my presentation and my draw.  Like you, I started very, very slow and decreased the time interval and I reached a point where my technique fell apart.   My technique improved dramatically, and my time improved somewhat but not to the extent I wanted. 

 

I eliminated the volume of repetitions of extremely slow fire,  kept the total volume the same, and increased the amount of reps at the more demanding times.  I still started slow, but not super slow.

 

The most important thing I did was video myself at the slowest time, then compared that to video with the decreasing times.  The video showed that the grip establishment wasn't the problem, it was unnecessary and inefficient body movement that was present during all the repetitions.  I was eventually establishing a great grip, but not doing it without  a lot of wasted movement.  I was ingraining poor body mechanics with every single rep, no matter the time constraint.  The poor mechanics led to the inability to draw fast.  I could overcome the inefficient body movement with slow par times.  But as the par time decreased, I couldn't establish my grip technique to overcome the poor and inefficient body mechanics. 

 

Once I realized the issue, I started with a relatively fast (but not too fast) par time  that I could consistently and easily  make, and worked my down until my technique tanked..  Based on your post, maybe start with 2.25 -2.5) and work from there.   I saw constant improvement with the time, and continued to video.

 

Bottom line, I shaved .6 off what I consider to be my no miss pace draw, and occasionally can hit a almost perfect sub 1.0 sec draw.  For most shooters on here, that's not impressive, but I was ecstatic in the time improvement.  More importantly, it helped me evaluate my overall shooting inefficiencies (deficiencies) and helped to improve in the many other areas I need

Edited by Mike H
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd "practice" just the grasp and present - go for the gun, fast; then pull the gun out, fast, then

bring the gun up and attain a sight picture - no trigger pull.

 

The pull isn't slowing you down, but you are not going fast for the gun, for not pulling the

gun out quickly, or attaining a fast sight picture ...  that's what I'd practice    :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good input and much appreciated.

 

I realized last evening that the super slow draws are a waste of time and energy.  Seems the slowest draw should be maybe 2x the par time of my current draw.  At that speed my form is certainly good, the draw is smooth and I can identify problems.  I'm short waisted with long arms.  I've realized that I've had my hands/wrists higher than necessary which necessitated lowering my hands before I could rotate my shoulder to get the gun.  This is not only wasted time,  but eliminating the additional movement made the get of the gun more reliable.  Several other unwanted, small features of my mechanics also came to light.  FWIW, I'm going to start at 4 seconds, go down to 2.5 in steps of .5 seconds and decrease the par time intervals below 2.5.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like you're wearing yourself out and getting tired before you've completed anything but the super slow draws.

 

One thing I like to do from time to time is go for the super quick par time when ice cold. I don't often get it perfect, but it shows me where I'm really at. Then I back off a little and go through my progression. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/14/2017 at 12:17 PM, TrackCage said:

Sounds like you're wearing yourself out and getting tired before you've completed anything but the super slow draws.

 

One thing I like to do from time to time is go for the super quick par time when ice cold. I don't often get it perfect, but it shows me where I'm really at. Then I back off a little and go through my progression. 

Right. Only the cold run really matters. When you're warmed up or practiced something, it becomes easier. But you won't have much practice in a match. Although I practice the draw and movements as much as possible after the make ready command. You're starting kinda slow, but at the same time if you have no idea what you're trying to accomplish, maybe starting slow is better so you can work on technique. But once you have the technique down, start with lower and stay low. Also break the movements down into multiple drills. So at the beep move from hands up/at sides to hand on the gun and support hand moves over. That's one drill. Then another drill start hand on the gun and support hand already over, and draw to a spot/target on the wall, that's another drill. Break the drill down into its parts, then combine the parts later on and work on it as a whole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with Mike H above and say video yourself. I think people can fall into complacency and do some quick reps and say to themselves "ok that felt pretty good". But when you watch yourself, especially through slow-mo, you can really pick apart your technique and identify inefficiencies 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



FWIW, I'm going to start at 4 seconds, go down to 2.5 in steps of .5 seconds and decrease the par time intervals below 2.5.
 


0.5s decreases in par time are huge when you're getting down near your current fastest reliable par time.

Instead of starting at 4s, how about just doing 10 reps with no time to remind yourself of how to perform a mechanically perfect draw and then add the par time again.

Set the initial par time about 0.5s slower than your current limit and then bump it down in 0.1s (no more than 0.2s) chunks.

To improve consistency, you could try to decrease the par time after 10 successful draws in a row. This may take you 10 or 15 or 20+ draws to get 10 in a row.

Don't stop when the wheels fall off, though! Keep dropping the time a few more reps below your current consistent par time to get the feeling of moving faster than you currently can and then back the time off again. You may find that pushing yourself faster and then relaxing the par time a tiny bit gets you drawing consistently at a time better than you thought possible. Don't spend too much time on these wheels-fell-off-faster-than-you-can reps - if you are doing something wrong when you speed up, you don't want to burn in that process. You just want to get the feeling of doing the motions faster so they're more comfortable and less alien(ating). ;)

TL;DR? Basically, a small enough decrease in par time won't be consciously noticeable and you won't be "hurrying, rushing and trying" (to coin a Steve Anderson phrase) to beat this new par time. A large change in par time will be obvious, consciously, and will likely induce a lot of tension into your draw.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...