Occasional HOT rounds

[RangerTrace]

OK, I'm new to loading 9mm, but not new to loading and I've never experience this with 40.  

 

The last couple of matches, I've had 3-4 of what feel and sound like magnum rounds mixed in with my super sweet load of 3.5 grains of N320, under a Zero 147 grain JHP to 1.125".  I'm loading on a 650 and I check the power charge very carefully and the start of a loading session.  I guess there is the possibility of set-back, but I've got a good crimp on the rounds and you'd think it would be more frequent if that was the issue.

 

Any clues? 

[HoMiE]

Sounds like bullet set-back. 

[Youngeyes]

Over crimping might cause the problem. When I first started loading 9mm I was over crimping and had a few that sounded like hot loads. Recheck the crimping die. I use the lee FCD now. 

[RangerTrace]

26 minutes ago, Youngeyes said:

Over crimping might cause the problem. When I first started loading 9mm I was over crimping and had a few that sounded like hot loads. Recheck the crimping die. I use the lee FCD now. 

When I set my crimp die, I used my barrel as the gauge.  I crimped it just enough to "plunk" in the chamber.  I guess I could start over and make sure my last adjustment wasn't too much.  

[L3324temp]

Do you run into issues with rounds before the powder drop and remove them?

 

If you do the extra cycle of the handle with no case under the dropper will pack more powder into the charge bar. The next round will be .1-.3g hotter.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

[HI5-O]

Brass? Maybe you have some of those “stepped” cases sneaking in which holds less volume so it acts like it’s overcharged?

[ToddKS]

To check your crimp you might pull a bullet and check for marks from the crimp.

 

Do you know at what OAL that bullets meets your lands? A slightly longer round going into the lands could be a possible source of what you describe.

 

Are you using mixed brass? It there any correlation between the headstamp and the event?

 

Is there any possiblily that you have some Maxxtech brass in what you are loading? This is only a theory but I would suspect that the reduced case capacity of this brass could cause pressure increase.

 

(This is just a theory, I have not personally used this brass, everyone I know sorts it out as scrap)

 

N320 meters really well. Unless the is something broken on the powder bar I would not expect significant variance on the charge weight. That said I would inspect the powder measure and die to ensure everything is clean and in proper working order.

 

 

[Hi-Power Jack]

33 minutes ago, ToddKS said:

 Do you know at what OAL that bullets meets your lands? A slightly longer round going into the lands could be a possible source of what you describe.

 

Lots of possibilities, but so far I kind of like this one  ^^^^^^.

 

Sounds like you just might be at the limits of OAL for that bullet in your gun, and

an occasional round is just a little too long.

 

But, also could be setback.

Crimp doesn't solve a setback problem - sizing might be the culprit.       

Edited December 10, 2017 by Hi-Power Jack

[TONY BARONE]

Case sizing holds the bullet from setback, taper crimping is for feeding. A U-die prevents bullet set back.

[Sarge]

Drop check all your ammo. Should fall in and out with no resistance. Let plop is what I like to hear. 

  If that test proves ammo to be short enough then try a LEE standard die or go all the way to a Udie. 

  Do some testing at the range and try to isolate the hot case when it ejects. See if they are all same headstamp. For me the Dillon sizer was a fail with FC and CCI brass since the case walls were on the thin size. I could easily push the bullet into the case further by hand after loading. U die fixed all of that.

[MHitchcock]

I don't have the plethora of reloading knowledge that some do. But...IMO skip the crimp period for 9mm. Just remove the bell. Use a Lee U die for sizing and a Lee FCD with the crimp backed out so you don't actually crimp the bullet. It full length sizes the case and removes the bell in the last station. There is no set back and no issues with mixed brass.

[RangerTrace]

12 hours ago, Sarge said:

Drop check all your ammo. Should fall in and out with no resistance. Let plop is what I like to hear. 

  If that test proves ammo to be short enough then try a LEE standard die or go all the way to a Udie. 

  Do some testing at the range and try to isolate the hot case when it ejects. See if they are all same headstamp. For me the Dillon sizer was a fail with FC and CCI brass since the case walls were on the thin size. I could easily push the bullet into the case further by hand after loading. U die fixed all of that.

I'm using a EGW U-die and the barrel is a KKM 1911 barrel.

[Sarge]

31 minutes ago, RangerTrace said:

I'm using a EGW U-die and the barrel is a KKM 1911 barrel.

Then double check they all drop check in and out of the barrel. For awhile there CK put out some guns with pretty short throats.

  If you can rule out length, crimp and season back then start looking at powder drops.

 Make sure the powder measure cycles to and fro 100% EVERY TIME. Then dump th powder and make sure there isn’t a foreign body in there. Make sure moisture got in there and got things clogged up.

  I don’t notice .1-.3 differences. If you are getting “hot” feeling loads, then that’s significant difference in charge weight or setback/oal issues.

  Not to insult your obvious intelligence, but could you have mixed in some of your work ammo by mistake? 

[RangerTrace]

32 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Then double check they all drop check in and out of the barrel. For awhile there CK put out some guns with pretty short throats.

  If you can rule out length, crimp and season back then start looking at powder drops.

 Make sure the powder measure cycles to and fro 100% EVERY TIME. Then dump th powder and make sure there isn’t a foreign body in there. Make sure moisture got in there and got things clogged up.

  I don’t notice .1-.3 differences. If you are getting “hot” feeling loads, then that’s significant difference in charge weight or setback/oal issues.

  Not to insult your obvious intelligence, but could you have mixed in some of your work ammo by mistake? 

No insult,, legitimate question.  But no, that isn't possible.  I dump rounds directly from dillon to ammo can.  I've got some work to do.......

[RangerTrace]

More info:

 

Barrel is marked .355 not 9X19 if it matters.

I loaded one round 6 times from the magazine and the OAL never changed.

Loaded ammo falls in and out of the chamber/barrel with ease.

[4n2t0]

OAL too long. 

2 hours ago, RangerTrace said:

Loaded ammo falls in and out of the chamber/barrel with ease.

 

Every single round? I think the OAL on some rounds are too long. How did you obtain the max OAL for that projectile/barrel combo?

Edited December 10, 2017 by 4n2t0

[Sarge]

3 hours ago, RangerTrace said:

More info:

 

Barrel is marked .355 not 9X19 if it matters.

I loaded one round 6 times from the magazine and the OAL never changed.

Loaded ammo falls in and out of the chamber/barrel with ease.

My KKM and Scheuman are both marked .355.

[MemphisMechanic]

Here is how I tell people to load the tapered-wall 9mm round if they haven’t loaded this caliber before. It’s solved frustrating odd issues for others in the past:

 

1. Load dummies that fail plunk and spin, going shorter and shorter, until you find where your particular barrel barely accepts this partocualr bullet. Let’s say that’s 1.140”. Set your press up so that your longest ammo you load is 1.130”.

 

2. Get your crimp dialed in. Think of it as a “flare removal” die and not a crimp. Return the wall to perfectly straight. Do this visually and by feel and checking with calipers. Now pull one of these bullets. You should see only the FAINTEST line where the case mouth laid against it, and your pulled bullet should mic the same diameter and unloaded ones. There should be no ridge in the jacket or polymer coating that you can catch your fingernail in. 

 

Those are the keys. Crimp is where most people mess up.

 

Are you using the Dillon powder check in station 3? If not, get one. I have one I’ll sell you ify ou need it. (Went to a MrBulletfeeder, no station left for it.)

[RangerTrace]

1 hour ago, 4n2t0 said:

OAL too long. 

 

Every single round? I think the OAL on some rounds are too long. How did you obtain the max OAL for that projectile/barrel combo?

I don't understand your question.  1.125" is where they are.   They fit my gauge and my barrel.

[RangerTrace]

22 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Here is how I tell people to load the tapered-wall 9mm round if they haven’t loaded this caliber before. It’s solved frustrating odd issues for others in the past:

 

1. Load dummies that fail plunk and spin, going shorter and shorter, until you find where your particular barrel barely accepts this partocualr bullet. Let’s say that’s 1.140”. Set your press up so that your longest ammo you load is 1.130”.

 

2. Get your crimp dialed in. Think of it as a “flare removal” die and not a crimp. Return the wall to perfectly straight. Do this visually and by feel and checking with calipers. Now pull one of these bullets. You should see only the FAINTEST line where the case mouth laid against it, and your pulled bullet should mic the same diameter and unloaded ones. There should be no ridge in the jacket or polymer coating that you can catch your fingernail in. 

 

Those are the keys. Crimp is where most people mess up.

 

Are you using the Dillon powder check in station 3? If not, get one. I have one I’ll sell you ify ou need it. (Went to a MrBulletfeeder, no station left for it.)

Thanks for the info.  I have a powder check on my 40 set up, but haven't bought one for the 9mm..  PM me for your price....

[4n2t0]

4 hours ago, RangerTrace said:

I don't understand your question.  1.125" is where they are.   They fit my gauge and my barrel.

 

I'm not sure what you don't understand. You need to find the max OAL for the projectile/barrel combination. I load a particular 147gr projectile at 1.15 for my Glock but my CZ Shadow won't accept anything longer than 1.09 (same projectile).

 

Do this...

 

There are several ways to do this, but here's my method.... Fit a new jacketed or plated bullet into a fired case. (No powder; fired primer.) If you try 2 or 3 bullet/case combinations you'll end up with 1 or 2 where the bullet is a snug "push fit". Set the bullet out to an OAL of like 1.300". Any OAL longer than what you need. Working with your barrel REMOVED from the gun, slide this "test cartridge" into the chamber. The bullet will slide back into the case until the mouth of the case comes to rest on the end of the chamber. Now, slowly and carefully withdraw the test cartridge and measure its new length. Do this a few times to make sure you're getting a proper measurement. That measurement is your exact chamber length for that bullet in that barrel. Now of course we need a set-back distance off the rifling, so subtract at least .015" from that number to obtain your maximum OAL. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by 4n2t0

[RangerTrace]

That makes sense.  I guess I understand the need for this if you are wanting to load longer than SAMMI specs, but as long as your within specs, shouldn't you be ok?  Meaning 1.125" isn't long and works in my non-1911 guns as well.

[ToddKS]

You never know how a particular chamber was cut until you check. I have a barrel that has a short throat. If I load a particular JHP I have to load them to 1.080 to stay out of the lands.

[MemphisMechanic]

2 hours ago, RangerTrace said:

That makes sense.  I guess I understand the need for this if you are wanting to load longer than SAMMI specs, but as long as your within specs, shouldn't you be ok?  Meaning 1.125" isn't long and works in my non-1911 guns as well.

 

No.

 

It HIGHLY depends on the profile of the bullet. Go back to my post and read “step 1”

 

You need to verify that you have at least 0.010” space with the longest round your press produces, which means you need to know how long you can actually go:

 

 

[lgh]

14 hours ago, Sarge said:

My KKM and Scheuman are both marked .355.

There is lots of good advice here on systematically troubleshooting your problem: Examine and drop check all rounds. Accurately check crimp. Shoot. Isolate the cases that are the problem and examine them. Without checking, you don't know if the problem is isolated to certain brass. If you haven't found the problem by then, go to the machine like Sarge says. Let us know how the problem ultimately gets fixed. It is fixable.

 

KKM barrels are .355