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Grip technique and strength


sean_stw

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I am very heavily right hand dominant and also have a very strong grip (I'm an auto mechanic) and have always heard people say grip harder with non dominate hand and it should help with smoother trigger control and to not dropping my shots low like I do a bit of the time. I've been trying to loosen up my right hand grip some since I grip it pretty tight and grip a little bit harder with my left but is very hard habit for me to break, is there any kind of technique or training that would help me break this habit or is it just more practice? Thanks 

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I grip both hands firmly. One helpful thing that I’ve heard is that your strong hand should be gripping front to back, and your support hand is gripping side to side.  For me, this lets me grip both hands firmly but still maintain dexterity in my trigger finger.

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3 hours ago, sean_stw said:

I am very heavily right hand dominant and also have a very strong grip (I'm an auto mechanic) and have always heard people say grip harder with non dominate hand and it should help with smoother trigger control and to not dropping my shots low like I do a bit of the time. I've been trying to loosen up my right hand grip some since I grip it pretty tight and grip a little bit harder with my left but is very hard habit for me to break, is there any kind of technique or training that would help me break this habit or is it just more practice? Thanks 

I am still pretty new to this game so take this for what it is worth...the goal is to have excellent trigger control (not moving the sights) while pulling the trigger as fast as you can.  For most people, that means more grip with the support hand.  I have better trigger control on dry and live fire with more grip from my support hand and I don’t seem to lose trigger speed with that method.  I would experiment and see what works best for you.  For me, I saw a lot of improvement when I started using more grip with my strong hand.

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I am still pretty new to this game so take this for what it is worth...the goal is to have excellent trigger control (not moving the sights) while pulling the trigger as fast as you can.  For most people, that means more grip with the support hand...

 

Most people have desk jobs pushing a mouse, if you work with your hands you have an advantage. Hold your gun with a firm grip like when you're swinging a hammer and you'll be fine. The desk jockeys are the ones that need to think about how hard they grip.

 

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2 hours ago, PatJones said:

 

 

 

 

 

Most people have desk jobs pushing a mouse, if you work with your hands you have an advantage. Hold your gun with a firm grip like when you're swinging a hammer and you'll be fine. The desk jockeys are the ones that need to think about how hard they grip.

 

 

Yeah my grip strength is definitely not an issue, I can handle hot loads of 500sw magnum one handed and its not an issue as far as hanging onto the gun. I've been shooting in USPSA production and steel challenge for the last year and didn't do to bad considering my limited experience but I feel a part of my problem is my grip on multiple levels, one is im  gripping to tight with my dominant hand and too week with my support hand and two I must be anticipating the recoil because I end up with a bit of my shots ending up low. I also don't have the greatest eye sight and its hard to focus on my sights and the target but that's a whole other issue but that's why im gonna try open class next year, the dot is a little bit easier to put on the target and stay on target or at least it seems to be easier. I know a lot of my issues can be fixed with more practice but live fire practice is hard for me to be able to do where I live and was wondering if there was any certain type of practice that would help keep a good support hand grip? I can sometimes initially have a good overall grip and shoot good but then as the day goes on I seem to revert back to mainly gripping with my dominant hand that's when things start to get a little out of wack.

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Dry firing.

When you dry fire, you can see what exactly the sights do, without an actual shot hiding what happens when the trigger breaks.

 

Another thing is that, once you have learned to do things one way, it takes a lot of repetitions to unlearn the old way and learn a new one. Dry firing can give you those hundreds or thousands of repetitions. Still, you might return to the old way when go for live firing under time pressure.

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12 hours ago, sean_stw said:

I am very heavily right hand dominant and also have a very strong grip (I'm an auto mechanic) and have always heard people say grip harder with non dominate hand and it should help with smoother trigger control and to not dropping my shots low like I do a bit of the time. I've been trying to loosen up my right hand grip some since I grip it pretty tight and grip a little bit harder with my left but is very hard habit for me to break, is there any kind of technique or training that would help me break this habit or is it just more practice? Thanks 

 

I would not worry about the current grip pressure in your right hand. I believe in gripping the gun hard with both hands. I don’t think about it in percentages between hands or harder with one hand than the other. Just simply gripping hard with both. 

 

To address your concern with your smooth trigger control, I think you will find gripping hard with your right hand doesn’t really harm your ability to pull the trigger straight back to the rear but the concern is more to do with being able to pull the trigger fast multiple times. I have found through training it, gripping the mess out of the gun with my strong hand and still being able to pull the trigger fast is a non issue.

 

What I can say about your support hand grip, is that it can hide a lot of sins. Try this: dry fire a bill drill with a weak support hand grip and then again with a strong support hand grip. You should notice the sights a lot more stable with the stronger grip. This is because the strong support hand is helping to negate some of the movement the trigger finger is putting on the gun. Hope this helps!

Edited by ngodwetrust21
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3 hours ago, ngodwetrust21 said:

What I can say about your support hand grip, is that it can hide a lot of sins. Try this: dry fire a bill drill with a weak support hand grip and then again with a strong support hand grip. You should notice the sights a lot more stable with the stronger grip. This is because the strong support hand is helping to negate some of the movement the trigger finger is putting on the gun. Hope this helps!

 

Thanks I'm gonna give that a try, don't know why I didn't think of doing that before. It makes sense and will help me see what kind of difference things make. I've seen videos from Jerry Miculek about grip that says the same on grip pressure, he says just grip it tight with both hands don't worry about how much one hand is gripping than the other just hold on tight. for me its the maintaining the tight grip with both hands ive actually caught myself nearly letting my support hand come off the gun while shooting it doesn't actually come off but is a loose grip, and a part of it I think is just from how dominate my right hand is. in my day to day life my left hand is kinda just along for the ride it doesn't do much lol, do you think doing more week hand drills might also help me gain a little more support hand......umm support lol?

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1 hour ago, sean_stw said:

in my day to day life my left hand is kinda just along for the ride it doesn't do much lol, do you think doing more week hand drills might also help me gain a little more support hand......umm support lol?

 

I like the way you worded that. Made me LOL. I think this is the case with most people. I can remember back when I first started shooting, the first few times I shot a 45 my support hand would fly off the gun every time I shot. Made it pretty obvious I was not gripping the gun correctly with my support hand.

 

For me, I felt my grip got a lot stronger just through dry fire. I also bought on of those grip strengthoner things and put it in the car. Not sure if it helped or not, but between those two things I have a solid grip. Another aspect of this is just training yourself to grip the gun hard with your support hand. At first this is a conscious effort. After a lot of training it just becomes subconscious, whenever you pick up the gun your support hand just naturally grips the mess out of the gun without you having to think about it anymore.

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After a lifetime of holding a hammet I can tell you that you dont grip it hard.  Same is the case with a gun.  Mechanics & plumbers have strongest grips. Old carpenters that actually swing a hammer are next. Problem is while applying your grip in your daily job, you arent often manipulating a trigger.  Youre gripping wrench not working your trigger.  Try holding your gun as loosely as you can with your strong hand.  Make it imperative that your weak hand holds the gun.  It will be hard at first but you can find a balance with time.  I know I will catch flack for this but give it a try.  Most likely you could hold & fire your gun strong handed with just thumb & trigger finger & 1 other finger. You have too much grip strength in strong hand. Its very hard to turn that down but you can get there.  Adjusting your strength to build agility is very much like a weight lifter trying to learn ballet.  It takes different skill set but you have solid foundation to build on.

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6 minutes ago, mlmiller1 said:

 I know I will catch flack for this but give it a try. 

 

You called it. 

 

http://americanwarriorshow.libsyn.com/team-glocks-shane-coley-key-training-habits-techniques-and-mental-preparation

 

Link to a podcast where Shane Coley talks about a bunch of stuff, grip included. He is an ok shooter... In summary, grip the mess out of the gun with both hands.

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12 hours ago, sean_stw said:

 

Yeah my grip strength is definitely not an issue, I can handle hot loads of 500sw magnum one handed and its not an issue as far as hanging onto the gun. I've been shooting in USPSA production and steel challenge for the last year and didn't do to bad considering my limited experience but I feel a part of my problem is my grip on multiple levels, one is im  gripping to tight with my dominant hand and too week with my support hand and two I must be anticipating the recoil because I end up with a bit of my shots ending up low. I also don't have the greatest eye sight and its hard to focus on my sights and the target but that's a whole other issue but that's why im gonna try open class next year, the dot is a little bit easier to put on the target and stay on target or at least it seems to be easier. I know a lot of my issues can be fixed with more practice but live fire practice is hard for me to be able to do where I live and was wondering if there was any certain type of practice that would help keep a good support hand grip? I can sometimes initially have a good overall grip and shoot good but then as the day goes on I seem to revert back to mainly gripping with my dominant hand that's when things start to get a little out of wack.

When I first started I had read a lot of 70/30 or 60/40 and since my right hand is definitely stronger, I was trying to make it do very minimal work.  My earlier point was simply don’t fight that that you do have a strong right hand.

 With respect to anticipating recoil, I would suggest that you practice with the same gun all the time for a while and that you double up on hearing protection while you practice.  With work and family, including kids involved in multiple after school sports, range time for me is limited, but I made a very dedicated effort to make it to the range every 2 to 3 days for a couple of weeks.  Many times it would be for only 50 rounds but it helped a lot.  After a few sessions, it didn’t feel like I was starting all over again.  Recoil anticipation quickly became a non-issue.   Now I can maintain that level with the range session every 1 to 2 weeks. Finally, I always begin and then my session shooting groups at 25 to 50 yards. That also seem to help.  I did dry fire every single day during that time and still do it at least 3 to 5 times per week even if it is only for a few minutes.

 

Edited by B585
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I'm going to chime in and say 90% of getting better groups is in trigger control. Dry fire your pistol as much as possible, don't jerk, nice and smooth. Don't expect your gun to fire just pull the trigger until it does. 

 

I correct peoples groups all the time (including mine at times), almost always it's the trigger finger and your anticipated reaction to a gun. 

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Yeah my grip strength is definitely not an issue, I can handle hot loads of 500sw magnum one handed and its not an issue as far as hanging onto the gun. I've been shooting in USPSA production and steel challenge for the last year and didn't do to bad considering my limited experience but I feel a part of my problem is my grip on multiple levels, one is im  gripping to tight with my dominant hand and too week with my support hand and two I must be anticipating the recoil because I end up with a bit of my shots ending up low. I also don't have the greatest eye sight and its hard to focus on my sights and the target but that's a whole other issue but that's why im gonna try open class next year, the dot is a little bit easier to put on the target and stay on target or at least it seems to be easier. I know a lot of my issues can be fixed with more practice but live fire practice is hard for me to be able to do where I live and was wondering if there was any certain type of practice that would help keep a good support hand grip? I can sometimes initially have a good overall grip and shoot good but then as the day goes on I seem to revert back to mainly gripping with my dominant hand that's when things start to get a little out of wack.

White wall drill will help with trigger control. Do it from a draw with an aggressive par time. This should help mimic live fire grip (vs. just just cycling the slide and pulling the trigger). Also your support hand grip might not be as strong as you think it is. Dropping the second shot can be either insufficient support hand grip OR you may need to try a different recoil spring weight training.


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22 hours ago, Descartian said:

I'm going to chime in and say 90% of getting better groups is in trigger control. Dry fire your pistol as much as possible, don't jerk, nice and smooth. Don't expect your gun to fire just pull the trigger until it does. 

Yes I agree with you on trigger control and I don't really practice enough dry fire or live, or at least I don't have a routine for practicing I do it here and there and at times I'll spend a bit of time on it but maybe I should make myself an actual routine like you would with exercising. I'm also hoping that having a dot is going to help me be more aware of whether or not I'm moving or the amount I'm moving when I'm squeezing the trigger.

 

10 hours ago, MJinPA said:

White wall drill will help with trigger control. Do it from a draw with an aggressive par time. This should help mimic live fire grip (vs. just just cycling the slide and pulling the trigger).

Thanks that's a good idea with the par timer considering I seem to be able to do the standard squeeze the trigger slow and keep the sights aligned just fine but it changes when the speed gets faster but at first I'll start off a little bit slower but once I get a little more comfortable with that I'll turn up the speed and see how my grip changes (if it does hopefully it won't much) and make sure the dot isn't moving much or at all. Hey do you shoot USPSA or steel challenge at Ontelaunee? that's where I usually do most of my competitions.

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Hey do you shoot USPSA or steel challenge at Ontelaunee? that's where I usually do most of my competitions.

Yep. USPSA. My profile picture is actually from the Monster Match. I'll be at New Holland this Sunday if it isn't too cold.


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25 minutes ago, sean_stw said:

I'm also hoping that having a dot is going to help me be more aware of whether or not I'm moving or the amount I'm moving when I'm squeezing the trigger.

 

If you want to really see what your trigger finger is doing to your groups, use a laser or laser grips. It will show any bad habits you have. 

 

I remember years ago using a set of laser grips and watching why my grips weren't as good as they could have been. 

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5 minutes ago, Descartian said:

If you want to really see what your trigger finger is doing to your groups, use a laser or laser grips. It will show any bad habits you have. 

Have you ever seen or tried any of those laser training systems like iTarget https://www.itargetpro.com/ do you think something like that would be a good idea?

 

23 minutes ago, MJinPA said:

Yep. USPSA. My profile picture is actually from the Monster Match. I'll be at New Holland this Sunday if it isn't too cold.

Cool I unfortunately wasn't able to make it to the monster match this year though I heard it was a good one I actually missed the last few matches this year but did shoot the area 8 championship. I did ok but there where a few stages that I kinda just fell apart and really screwed me up overall. I've never been to New Holland its about a 3hr drive for me.

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I've seen some mixed reviews on using a laser or a laser trainer, given that people generally look for the laser instead of looking at their sights. Would you use the laser in terms of just looking at what the gun is doing on trigger pull during dry fire?

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26 minutes ago, touji said:

I've seen some mixed reviews on using a laser or a laser trainer, given that people generally look for the laser instead of looking at their sights. Would you use the laser in terms of just looking at what the gun is doing on trigger pull during dry fire?

like how the iTarget laser trainer it only turns on the laser for a split second and you use either a computer with a camera or a smart phone its camera and it records where your shot was. so I would just pay attention to my sights and trigger pull and then after I dry fire I'll see where I actually hit on the target from the recording.

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The itarget works great as a basic timer so you can get some really good feedback on your basic drills. However you will want to focus on your sights as opposed to where the laser is hitting so you don’t develop any bad habits. Just follow the setup instruction and calibrate it properly. Though the laser will hit off center it will register where your poa/poi hits so you can review accuracy after. Not a bad tool

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I've never used a laser trainer and I'm not a fan of laser grips. I think it makes you lazy when shooting, you should be proficiently trained to know where your gun is going to shoot when you point it at something. People get too comfortable pointing a laser, looking for it to get where they want it then firing. It takes to long and doesnt use skill. 

 

The only reason I'd reccomend a laser system is to let you know what's going on when you point a gun and pull the trigger. 

 

I almost bought a SS STI Guardian 9mm CTC because the price was too good to pass up.  The first think I would have done is got rid of the Crimson Trace grips. 

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I taught myself to grip the gun hard with my offhand by picking the gun up repeatedly and gripping it right until THAT was my new normal.

 

I advise no trigger pull. They distract. I didn’t even use a holster for this fryfire: keep the gun out and handy throughout the evening. Pick it up wvery few minutes, and obtain a proper grip and sight picture. Grip the gun twice as hard with your offhand as you usually do.

 

If you’re not thinking about anytiing else (like pressing the trigger or drawing from a holster) it becomes easy to only focus on the one remaining thing: grip pressure.

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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9 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

I taught myself to grip the gun hard with my offhand by picking the gun up repeatedly and gripping it right until THAT was my new normal.

 

I advise no trigger pull. They distract. I didn’t even use a holster for this fryfire: keep the gun out and handy throughout the evening. Pick it up wvery few minutes, and obtain a proper grip and sight picture. Grip the gun twice as hard with your offhand as you usually do.

 

If you’re not thinking about anytiing else (like pressing the trigger or drawing from a holster) it becomes easy to only focus on the one remaining thing: grip pressure.

 

I think this is good practice...  

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