Carry Optics Make Lights Legal

[Dutycalls75]

4 hours ago, JAFO said:

It is well on its way to being Limited Optics.

 

Im not sure why everyone makes this comparison. At the end of the day CO still mandates minor scoring, so you have to ensure you shoot alphas. It’s not like open where you blast the targets as fast as you can because you have major scoring. In my opinion, the scoring difference makes Open and CO very different.

 

I think the names of the divisions cause more issues than there worth. Especially when it comes to Prod and Carry Optics.

[OPENB]

What if we just called it Hybrid? It has elements from most of the divisions. It's currently my favorite division. Optic for my eyes, hicap mags cause reloading sucks, minor ammo easier to shoot fast, yet forces accuracy, holster gear is cheaper and more comfortable to wear all day.

Edited December 6, 2017 by OPENB

[Sarge]

5 minutes ago, OPENB said:

What if we just called it Hybrid? It has elements from most of the divisions. It's currently my favorite division. Optic for my eyes, hicap mags cause reloading sucks, minor ammo easier to shoot fast, yet forces accuracy, holster gear is cheaper and more comfortable to wear all day.

Or Open Carry

[teros135]

20 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Or Open Carry

 

Or just "My personal division".

[JAFO]

16 hours ago, Dutycalls75 said:

 

Im not sure why everyone makes this comparison. At the end of the day CO still mandates minor scoring, so you have to ensure you shoot alphas. It’s not like open where you blast the targets as fast as you can because you have major scoring. In my opinion, the scoring difference makes Open and CO very different.

 

I think the names of the divisions cause more issues than there worth. Especially when it comes to Prod and Carry Optics.

 

I make that comparison because when it started it was Production with an optic:

• Optic required
• Minor scoring
• 10-rd limit
• Production list guns
• Production modification rules
• Production equipment placement rules

Now, you have:

• Optic required
• Minor scoring
• 141.25 mm mags
• Production list guns, but...
• You can run extra weight in (or on) the gun up to a maximum weight limit
• You can modify the slide any way you want to as long as you don't make holes
• You can modify the frame for texture, smoothing, undercutting, etc, without regard to App E4
• Production equipment placement rules

Minor scoring may mean you run it differently than you would Limited Major, but the Division now shares much more in common with Limited than with Production.

Edited December 6, 2017 by JAFO

[Dutycalls75]

5 hours ago, JAFO said:

 

I make that comparison because when it started it was Production with an optic:

• Optic required
• Minor scoring
• 10-rd limit
• Production list guns
• Production modification rules
• Production equipment placement rules

Now, you have:

• Optic required
• Minor scoring
• 141.25 mm mags
• Production list guns, but...
• You can run extra weight in (or on) the gun up to a maximum weight limit
• You can modify the slide any way you want to as long as you don't make holes
• You can modify the frame for texture, smoothing, undercutting, etc, without regard to App E4
• Production equipment placement rules

Minor scoring may mean you run it differently than you would Limited Major, but the Division now shares much more in common with Limited than with Production.

 

I agree it shares several aspects between Limited, Open and Production.

 

When it comes down to it though I believe that really only two things differentiate between the divisions competitively and that’s the sighting system used and the scoring based on powerfactor.

 

I think OPENB may be onto something with the name Hybrid....but I’m all for going to non-descriptive names for the divisions too.

[JLB-US]

Non-descriptive name might be good  before someone throws in that the “carry” part should mean a 23 oz. weight limit

[ddc]

I'm curious. Are these concerns primarily due to where you place with respect to the high overall rankings? If we were truly interested in only where we ranked with respect to our equipment division then would these discussions be so intense?  Are there not significant differences in equipment division capabilities with attendant results in overall scoring? As a production shooter it is fun to compare my results to every body else. As a CO shooter it is fun to compare my results to the open shooters and limited shooters (and everybody else) but why would I care that the CO rules be changed so that I could be more competitive in the overall results? Honest question... really...

[RJH]

8 hours ago, ddc said:

I'm curious. Are these concerns primarily due to where you place with respect to the high overall rankings? If we were truly interested in only where we ranked with respect to our equipment division then would these discussions be so intense?  Are there not significant differences in equipment division capabilities with attendant results in overall scoring? As a production shooter it is fun to compare my results to every body else. As a CO shooter it is fun to compare my results to the open shooters and limited shooters (and everybody else) but why would I care that the CO rules be changed so that I could be more competitive in the overall results? Honest question... really...

 

I think these discussions usually come from, "my gun has x or y and I think that should be legal, in whatever division I want to shoot it in, because I want it to and it wouldn't be competitive in some other division (usually open), that it would be legal in now". 

 

The trick is to get the correct ear to hear it, that way  you do actually get your own division.  Single stack and production would fit very nicely in the same division right now with the only change to the rules of allowing 8 rounds of major in production style guns,  but we have 2 divisions for them.  We have carry ops, that has morphed along way from "slap a dot on a production gun", to welfare open.  People see this and say lets put weights, slide cuts, etc., cause this or that is allowed.  Pretty soon we will have 2 divisions for carry ops, and I aint a carry ops hater.  We still have revolver for the 4 people in America that wants to shoot them some where other than nationals, when allowing them to shoot 8 major in Pro/SS/Revo would give them more people to shoot against. 

 

Basically I think it boils down to perceived fairness.  Optics and comps, definitely give an advantage, hence open.  High round count and major have an advantage, hence limited.  Low round count guns shot buy the same person will generally give about the same scores, which I would like to see SS/pro/ revolver shoot together.  I know revolver is at a disadvantage with reloads but still...

 

So see the trick is whining loud enough that you can bring an open gun and not have to shoot against open guns, or what the heck, bring a rifle to a pistol match.  For the record I don't hate any division, and have shot all of them but carry ops, and might build a carry ops gun

[Joe4d]

On 12/9/2017 at 9:35 AM, RJH said:

 

I think these discussions usually come from, "my gun has x or y and I think that should be legal, in whatever division I want to shoot it in, because I want it to and it wouldn't be competitive in some other division (usually open), that it would be legal in now". 

 

The trick is to get the correct ear to hear it, that way  you do actually get your own division.  Single stack and production would fit very nicely in the same division right now with the only change to the rules of allowing 8 rounds of major in production style guns,  but we have 2 divisions for them.  We have carry ops, that has morphed along way from "slap a dot on a production gun", to welfare open.  People see this and say lets put weights, slide cuts, etc., cause this or that is allowed.  Pretty soon we will have 2 divisions for carry ops, and I aint a carry ops hater.  We still have revolver for the 4 people in America that wants to shoot them some where other than nationals, when allowing them to shoot 8 major in Pro/SS/Revo would give them more people to shoot against. 

 

Basically I think it boils down to perceived fairness.  Optics and comps, definitely give an advantage, hence open.  High round count and major have an advantage, hence limited.  Low round count guns shot buy the same person will generally give about the same scores, which I would like to see SS/pro/ revolver shoot together.  I know revolver is at a disadvantage with reloads but still...

 

So see the trick is whining loud enough that you can bring an open gun and not have to shoot against open guns, or what the heck, bring a rifle to a pistol match.  For the record I don't hate any division, and have shot all of them but carry ops, and might build a carry ops gun

Optics major,,,, ( current Open) scored major if u make it, no score if u dont.
Optics minor. ( no compensators. slide mounted optics only) basically current CO rules, give it a box and weight limit and dont worry about trigger type.
Limited major. ( current limited scored major or no score)
Limited minor.  10 round limit scored minor...could do the 10 /8 thing or go back to allowing extended 1911 45 10 round mags.