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Shockbottle Hundo gauge question


CHLChris

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I've got a Shockbottle Hundo 9mm gauge and noticed something in the directions.

 

"2.  Lift gauge above surface and remove any rounds significantly above or below flush with top of gauge."

 

One time I had 380acp case get all the way through the process and my case gauge caught it!  Way below the surface...got it.  But what does "significantly above" mean?  If I were loading for a level 2 match, I may just reject any rounds that were above flush at all, but I've still never had a problem with any round, even the ones a millimeter above flush.  How high does it need to be in order to pose a problem?  What is significant?

 

My photo shows a round that is above flush by the depth of the case rim.  I'm guessing that isn't significant since it chambers in my gun okay, but sticks up higher than the other 99 rounds.

 

 

IMG_3591.jpg

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It depends on the firearm. I check all of my barrels to see what I can get away with and note the tight chambered ones. For example, that round would chamber smoothly in my Glock, M&P and SR9 but stick a little in my CZ.

Edited by 4n2t0
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Is there any coincidence that both bullets that aren't passing have the "CBC" headstamp?  The Hundo gauge is awesome.  Usually if a round doesn't pass I inspect the brass for defects and if none found I run it through the crimp die only once more and recheck.  If it still fails it goes into the practice box.

 

Edited by bemanuel
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I've made about 8k rounds of my own ammo with no case gauge but every one was plunked in the barrel I intended to shoot those rounds in as each gun requires a different seating depth.

Recently I won a shockbottle from the prize table and have used it for another 1k rounds and find that about 5% of them look similar to the photo from the op.

Of those 5% all are then plunked but I have found 3 that had split brass casings and yet still plunk correctly.

Even though I felt that I had a very intense case inspection process, I have to wonder how many I've already fired that were actually damaged.

I am a firm believer in the Shockbottle now.

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3 hours ago, StratRider said:

I've made about 8k rounds of my own ammo with no case gauge but every one was plunked in the barrel I intended to shoot those rounds in as each gun requires a different seating depth.

Recently I won a shockbottle from the prize table and have used it for another 1k rounds and find that about 5% of them look similar to the photo from the op.

Of those 5% all are then plunked but I have found 3 that had split brass casings and yet still plunk correctly.

Even though I felt that I had a very intense case inspection process, I have to wonder how many I've already fired that were actually damaged.

I am a firm believer in the Shockbottle now.

 

Just out of curiosity, why don't you load to the shortest acceptable OAL? That way your ammo will work in all your firearms.

Edited by 4n2t0
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I used to take the rejects and flip them over. If they fall in And out easily upside down. I'd Call them good. Coated lead Bullets don't like the Hundo very well, imo.
I quit case gauging all together though.


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30 minutes ago, Maximis228 said:

If its not flush (High or low) then I pull for practice. If they dont fall out on their own, I pull for practice as well.

 

Same here. For ANY match; local, major, whatever, I want all of my ammo "perfect" in the gauge.  The rest go into the practice can.

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58 minutes ago, 4n2t0 said:

 

Just out of curiosity, why don't you load to the shortest acceptable OAL? That way your ammo will work in all your firearms.

This is something that I have started doing now but initially I have always been a stickler for starting with recommended OAL whenever possible.

I like to do a lot of testing (especially if using new powders or bullet weights) just to see if there are any real differences on the chrono.

Using the same brass and trickled powders, etc. I've finally concluded that the Dillon 650 will produce them close enough to not worry about minor imperfections any longer.

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19 hours ago, bemanuel said:

Is there any coincidence that both bullets that aren't passing have the "CBC" headstamp?  The Hundo gauge is awesome.  Usually if a round doesn't pass I inspect the brass for defects and if none found I run it through the crimp die only once more and recheck.  If it still fails it goes into the practice box.

 

So, by "fail" you mean not sit flush?  I've seen other brands of cases sit proud in the gauge.  A couple that were high, I noticed had a bulge (like an old-style Glock smile) that had most mostly pressed back in by the sizing die.

 

1 hour ago, Maximis228 said:

If its not flush (High or low) then I pull for practice. If they dont fall out on their own, I pull for practice as well.

This is a really good way to think about these rounds!

 

6 hours ago, StratRider said:

Even though I felt that I had a very intense case inspection process, I have to wonder how many I've already fired that were actually damaged.

I am a firm believer in the Shockbottle now.

I noticed a few cases that were bulged (like a Glock smile), but then smoothed out by the sizing die.  Those cases usually "failed" the Hundo and were a little high.  I should have removed them, but are now floating in a can of 1000 rounds I just loaded over the weekend.  I'm crossing my fingers that they'll be fine, since I'm not planning on sifting through every round again.  I've already touched each one a dozen times or more.

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20 hours ago, Flatland Shooter said:

Any rounds that stick up above the gauge the thickness of the rim goes to the practice ammo box.  Any rounds that stick up more than that go into the "pull and salvage" box.

I think I'll start doing this on the next 1000 rounds I load after the holidays.

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The round in question is a fail. I do not have "practice" and "match" ammo, only ammo that passes QC. The Hundo makes it so easy to check ammo that it's not worth a failure in practice requiring me to waste time in a session with bad ammo. I can practice failure drills in dry fire. 

A couple of quick notes. Be sure you're cleaning your gauge from time to time. It's surprising how little "schmutz" it takes to start incorrectly failing rounds. You can also wipe off the rounds that fail with a paper towel or such to double check. I've had dog hairs cause rounds to fail the gauge. 

 

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You learned what you needed to know, when your ammo comes out of the gauge like that it will still check in your barrel. You still used the case gauge but now you have a better idea of the tolerance differences between your Hundo and your barrel.

 

Like many people if I'm case gauging my ammo I'm doing it for a match and I want them all to be 100% perfect. So even though I know that one would work, I'd pull it and place it in my practice bin knowing that it still has a high probability of firing with no malfunction induced in the gun.

 

I'm fond of saying "you don't case gauge to find 400 good rounds, you case gauge to find 4 bad ones." It's up to you to know your ammo, your gauge and your barrel and decide what are your action points for the differences you'll see.

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bullet5.thumb.jpg.1b3d036f1c20a6baf2194da50202db00.jpgbullet4.thumb.jpg.3d76db6696f09b16cd96328518cde02f.jpgI'

 

I've had the same problem with CBC 9mm brass. The case is thin and bulges slightly during the bullet seating. All my CBC doesn't case gauge well Top picture is starline. Bottom picture is CBC. Toss all the CBC stuff. 

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Originally I had the same question that is posed here. My solution is to inspect any round that fails to drop easily and flush into the 100 round gauge. As mentioned the gauge finds cracks and 380's pretty efficiently. Next I bought a Dillon single hole gauge. It is more forgiving. I verified that any round that fully drops into the Dillon and falls out easily will work in my Glocks and CZ Shadows.

 

Consequently I am confident enough with the Dillon check to use the Hundo failed rounds for practice. Even for my largely inconsequential local matches I only use rounds that pass the Hundo. I just do not want a match failure and I have never had one.

 

Any round that fails to fall flush in the Dillon gauge or fails to easily fall out when inverted is discarded or disassembled for bullet recovery and discarded. Since I recently switched from jacketed bullets to coated, I find bullet recovery to be a problem because little edge damage results in hanging up in my bullet feeder so I discard usually. Its a very small number. Maybe 3-4 discards in 2000-3000 rounds. No biggy but I do not reload many headstamps. Only FC, Win, Blazer, R-P, PMC, and Speer. There are many known bad cases out there including darn near anything from the discount reload companies. I do not trust anything from Sao Paulo (CBC) or mostly anything from Italy. Just me.

 

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Along with what others have mentioned, if I have a round that doesn’t seat flush, I’ll try it in another hole before pitching it in the practice/pull apart bin. More often than not it’s a kernel of powder gumming the works up that just needs to be blown out.

 

M

 

PS never had much luck with CBC. I sort and reload *-* (Starline), WIN (and derivatives), R•P, FC (old Federal), .FC. (New Federal including derivatives Speer, Blazer) - and Reload them in just about that order. PMC I’ll keep just in case, but everything else goes to another reloader with less discriminating tastes in brass.

 

 

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One thing that I do differently is that when I get a round that doesn't fit flush (actually more than not flush, if I can hook my fingernail under the extractor groove) I pull it out and I have a Lee turret press mounted next to my 650, it has a Lee FCD with the guts removed, I run  the round through that and 90% of the time it then fits flush (or close) in the Hundo. If it's still proud of the gauge after that, it goes into the practice can.

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I've got a Shockbottle Hundo 9mm gauge and noticed something in the directions.
 
"2.  Lift gauge above surface and remove any rounds significantly above or below flush with top of gauge."
 
One time I had 380acp case get all the way through the process and my case gauge caught it!  Way below the surface...got it.  But what does "significantly above" mean?  If I were loading for a level 2 match, I may just reject any rounds that were above flush at all, but I've still never had a problem with any round, even the ones a millimeter above flush.  How high does it need to be in order to pose a problem?  What is significant?
 
My photo shows a round that is above flush by the depth of the case rim.  I'm guessing that isn't significant since it chambers in my gun okay, but sticks up higher than the other 99 rounds.
 
 
IMG_3591.thumb.jpg.ccbaca91a45c7e7d779a59fbcd4dea80.jpg
Depends on what is causing it. A dented run can cause extraction issues. Crap around the neck can cause feeding issues.

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One thing that I do differently is that when I get a round that doesn't fit flush (actually more than not flush, if I can hook my fingernail under the extractor groove) I pull it out and I have a Lee turret press mounted next to my 650, it has a Lee FCD with the guts removed, I run  the round through that and 90% of the time it then fits flush (or close) in the Hundo. If it's still proud of the gauge after that, it goes into the practice can.


I do the same thing! The FCD helps rescue a few rounds here and there, but I don’t like using it too much because it can cold swage the bullet.
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CBC has a thicker web higher up in the case. The deeper you seat the bullet the greater the case will bulge. If you always seat to minimum case length you will get a lot of failed loads with CBC brass, this is especially problematic with 147gr lead with lube/gas grooves. I seat as long as I can (1.135) and it reduces the number of cartridges that fail the gage. I still get a few failed cases which I usually save and then shoot all in the same mag or three.

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