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Stage for comparing pistols


yosturm

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I feel like this is the best place for this but, humor me for a second.

 

I am interested in comparing several of my pistols and figure that the best way to do this is to create a stage and shoot several rounds with each of my pistols.  Also I think the stage should probably be a stationary stage (I don't move) since I am not testing my ability to move and want to remove that variable.

 

I will have for certain 4 knock over 4"x10" steel targets on stands, 5 steel challenge-style 10" steel plates, and 4 target stands which I can put any mix of USPSA style full size or 1/2 size targets (I have both).  I may have additional target stands available, it just depends on what is left behind at the range, but the above I own so for sure will have those.

 

My questions for the group are, what kind of course of fire should I setup and should I use different target setups or all just standard?

 

Stage A)  If everything should be simple/the same I would set up (from left to right)

--2 knock over steel

--4 USPSC full-size cardboard targets about one foot between all targets

--2 knock over steel

This would take 12 rounds and thus I am not playing with reloads or worried about mag capacity differences.  I would still be testing my capabilities with each pistol for  1) "precision shots" on the steel,  2) target acquisition and transition between the different targets, and 3) control of doubletaps.

 

Stage B )  if I should have target variety I would set up (from left to right)

--2 knock over steel

-- USPSC full-size cardboard target

(all cardboard targets would be at varying distances from me/from other targets)

-- 2 USPSC full-size cardboard target hung sideways stacked on top of each other (4 rounds of two targets)

--2 Challenge Steel 10" plates

-- USPSC full-size cardboard target sprayed as hard cover for diagonal half

-- USPSC full-size cardboard target with no shoot target obscuring approx. 75%

This would take 14 rounds and now I risk having magazine issues for my few guns that hold 15+1 if I miss two shots (steel or hard targets...) so I may have more trouble comparing runs between different guns.  Also the variety of targets is testing more of my "skill" with those types of targets, rather than pure pistol/mechanics.

 

I figure I would do time and points and do at least 3 good runs with each of the guns I want to compare.  For anyone interested they would be STI 9mm 2011, CZ P07, Beretta 92, and my buddies M&P if he comes.

 

Any thoughts or other suggestions?

 

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I disagree a bit. Thinking of what happens it is a combination of factors as you mentioned. Gun, ammo, rig, shooter, skill level. I don't think you can accurately test the gun if you don't also test it beyond just mechanical accuracy. It has to be how you use it to really determine if it is the best.

 

So at one time I had to decide what gun I wanted to shoot for Production. I had as choices, a standard CZ SP01 Shadow, an Accu-Shadow, a Glock 34 and a Shadow 2. 4 different guns but all for the same usage and I really wanted to know which one was "best" for me, in my case which gun was it easiest for me to get the highest hit factors the most consistently. (See how I'm an important part of the testing criteria)

 

What I did was use all the same ammo. I put everything thing I did into practiscore on my phone and in my rrange notebook. I collected data to cross check my impressions. I did it all on the same day. I started with the gun I used the most, so I'd warm up into the guns I use less as a balance between familiarity, being warmed up and testing potential.

 

Testing each pistol through my "stages" in entirety before switching guns I did:

  • 5 one shot draws at 7 yards one one target.
  • 5 two shot draws at 10 yards on one target.
  • 5 runs at 4 Aces drill at 10 yards (instead of the normal 7)
  • Start on one side of 3'x3' shooting box, shoot 2 at a 10 yard target, step across box doing reload and shoot 2 at 20 yard target. Two runs each direction.
  • 5 runs at Accelerator drill. 2 of them near to far, 2 far to near and the 5th my choice in the moment.
  • 2 runs at El Pres at 10 yards.
  • 2 runs at El Pres at 20 yards.
  • Shoot a slow fire 10 shot group at a 20 yard head.
  • Shoot a slow fire 10 shot group strong hand only at a 10 yard head.
  • Shoot a slow fire 10 shot group weak hand only at a 10 yard body.

I entered all of this in Practiscore as a match I created on my phone. The gun that won the match was the one I chose to shoot. I looked at the data in my range book as well where I recorded each draw, split, transition, reload and such to see where each was, to answer questions like "which gun do I draw fastest? which gun do I reload quickest? which gun do I shoot the most accurate at distance?"

 

It took me half a day, 5 hours. Because of set up, cool down, entering data, taping and so on to do 4 guns.

Edited by rowdyb
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3 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

I'd just shoot them, and see which I "liked best" ...   no need for all this 5 hours of setting up stages.

 

There's no way I would be able to shoot the Beretta or M&P as well as the STI ....   :) 

That’s what I am pretty sure the answer is, I just want to quantify the difference between them.  And so that I can have a measurable “standard” that I can set up the same stage in the future and compare how my training is improving.

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Why not just set up a punishing (difficult) classifier stage that uses one target stand (limited space requirement ... like 10 yards) ... can be replicated "exactly" easily to use to evaluate performance improvement (or test additional guns ... like when you finally realize you like revolver best).

 

Something like 03-11 (weak strong ElPres) comes to mind!! 

Spin around ... reload ... weak hand; strong hand ... challenging shots with the big white thing in the middle!! It has it all. 

https://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/03-11.pdf

 

Just sayin ... 

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1 hour ago, johnbu said:

Running classifiers sequentially will be greatly influenced by the shooter.  at least at my level, scores improve with repetitions.

 

Does that not still happen with the higher skilled classes?

 

I does, but it takes more repetitions for smaller improvements.

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2 hours ago, johnbu said:

Running classifiers sequentially will be greatly influenced by the shooter.  at least at my level, scores improve with repetitions.

 

Does that not still happen with the higher skilled classes?

I was going to ask the same question.  Maybe you could run each pistol on a different day?  It would take longer, but might be a bit more accurate.  I did a bit of an experiment about 6 months ago when I got about 6 different guns in different sizes, one with a dot, etc. and ran each through a series of static drills to compare the times/accuracy.  I would take one out every week and shoot the same drills in the same order and record all the times.

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I would probably do a lot of repetitions to try to account for that.  Something like warm up (whatever that would be), then three times with each pistol, then two times with each pistol, then again two times with each pistol.  And I guess keep going as long as I have time/am not bored yet.

 

Recording all of those (except warm up) and then look at the data.  Hopefully I can parse out the incremental improvement from practicing the stage more and still apply the results in a fair manner.

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I wonder if you are not over-thinking this? As was said, why do a bunch of set up when the plate rack will tell the same story? Run each rack 4 or 5 times and check the results. Still probably the best sample of speed and consistency...

Of course, if you LIKE to set up, have at it...

IMHO of course

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