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MD's: A reasoned plea AGAINST 1/2 day format matches


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I guess I've shot enough matches now using both full day and 1/2 day formats to express an opinion.

 

From a competitor's standpoint:

1/2 day format matches plain suck for me as a competitor. I've never felt so rushed and yet so disconnected from a match using 1/2 day format. The ones that I have gone to feel the need to have an AM start and then a PM start (or vice versa) for scheduling. That is exactly one whole day that you are not competing. I don't travel to remote ranges at matches to "see the sights", go "antique-ing" or catch up on all the TV sports. I go to shoot matches and be at the range. 4 or 5 stages in a row might be some's cup o' tea, but not mine. No (ZERO) chances of getting a drink from the car, getting extra ammo, loading mags, etc. if you are honestly working to reset for the whole squad. The only way to rest and reset is to walk away from your squad while others are shooting. Whole day format allows 1 stage on, 1 stage off (with lunch) scheduling, time to rest, reset, ammo up and plan the next stage.

 

Why 1/2 day format is BAD from a MD perspective:

1/2 day formats completely screw any food vendors or display, ammo or shooting vendors. Why? Because only 1/2 of the match shooters are present at any one time and they are otherwise engaged blasting through 4 -5 stages non-stop. No time to look at any displays. Food vendors are doubly screwed in that, if you are an AM start, you've eaten breakfast before coming to the range, shoot until 12 to 1 PM and then want to clean up and sit in a restaurant, not eat at the range. If you are a PM start, the last thing you are thinking about is getting to the range early so you can eat. I've actually seen vendors pack up and leave in the early PM because no one is around. I've been to both all-day and 1/2 day matches at the SAME RANGE and have not seen any parking problems attributable to one schedule or the other.

 

WHOLE DAY IS A GOOD DAY:

Arrive at either a early (7 AM or so) or "late" (9AM or so) start, grab that breakfast burrito or juice, shoot 2 or 3 stages before lunch (one on, one off format) have lunch, possibly talk to and BS with the ENTIRE complement of competitors instead of 1/2 the field, shoot 3 or 2 stages in the PM, repeat the next day for as long as required. This format is not any "harder" on the match staff (conversely, 1/2 day format is not any easier on match staff)...same same.

 

FINAL POINTS:

RO's are not saved any "work" by using 1/2 day format, the competitor count is the same.

I've seen that squads are more relaxed and more willing to reset until finished knowing that they have a break after the stage (using whole day format).

 

Mi dos centavos....

Discuss...

 

ericm

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Counterpoint:

 

Sign up for PM Saturday and AM Sunday, the out of town folks can drive in Saturday morning and go back home after lunch on Sunday.

 

For us older competitors, six stages in one day followed by six the next day is survivable.  Twelve stages from dusk til down is no longer fun by early afternoon.  Same may apply to some of the younger shooters.

 

With twelve stages in one day, you will be down to less than half the squad really putting out the effort to tape and set steel.  Its not a case of laziness, they are just beat down by the end of the day.

 

I may not like antiquing or sight-seeing, but my wife does.  Include the spouse and it becomes a mini-vacation and not just an expense for "your" hobby.

 

If you want to shoot in a one day format, many of the matches also have squads on Friday shooting the entire match in that one day.

 

Also just my two cents worth.

 

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This is literally the only time I've ever seen anyone criticize or complain about the half day format.

Half day is vastly superior to any other format for the average section match (9-12 stages).

Why would I want to spend sunup to sundown on the range of I don't have to? Full day means you're worn out for your last few stages. Half day means you're able to get in your groove and stay fresh for all stages.

Half day means I can avoid a night in a hotel.

Half day means you can watch other notable guys shoot the stages before or after your relay.

Half day is enlightenment.

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Not to belabor the obvious, but you both do know I am talking about "whole day" matches as those that shoot one stage and then take one stage time allotment off....at no time do we shoot "12 stages in one day".....4 -5 stages in a day - one on, one off. Also, I am talking major 3 gun matches here, not pistol sectionals.

 

Half day format matches mean awards ceremonies that start about 5 PM or so on Sunday EVENING in my experience. If you do go home "after lunch" on Sunday - no awards or prize table for you.

 

I find it interesting that some feel that 1/2 day non-stop is "energetic" but a whole day of one on - one off is draining....the amount of shooting is the same.

 

Keep it going.....

 

ericm

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That would be absolutely horrible,,, shoot for 30 seconds,, then basically stand around for 2 hours ? So still only shooting 10 stages but need 2 full days to do it ?
Umm no way Jose... 
Sont know what you mean by non stop.. Figure 10ish man squads hour per stage,, I never felt rushed at Area 8, sections, or Nationals. 
Ive shot straight through Area,,, think it was 9 stages but heat was brutal,,, wasnt fun at all. Way too long a day.
Pretty much why I quit shooting, was spending 10 hours mostly standing around for all of about 5 minutes of shooting.

Edited by Joe4d
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wait, you want to spend an entire day shooting only 4-6 stages? 

 

count me out of that. I'd rather shoot them in half the day and have the other half of the day to dope out the next day's stages, dryfire, drink beer by the pool, etc...

Edited by motosapiens
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8 minutes ago, Joe4d said:


Pretty much why I quit shooting, was spending 10 hours mostly standing around for all of about 5 minutes of shooting.

 

If you are standing around when you are not shooting, you are doing it entirely wrong. I use that time to plan and visualize (and also tape, reset, and socialize). It's as much a part of my match performance as the actual run itself.

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20 minutes ago, ericm said:

Not to belabor the obvious, but you both do know I am talking about "whole day" matches as those that shoot one stage and then take one stage time allotment off....at no time do we shoot "12 stages in one day".....4 -5 stages in a day - one on, one off. Also, I am talking major 3 gun matches here, not pistol sectionals.

 

I apologize.  I've never heard that format referred to as "half day".

 

I've only ever known what you describe in your OP as a "multi-day match".  

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An example might help to visualize the difference between what I call full day format vs. 1/2 day format.

 

3 gun match, 2 days, 8 stages, 160 competitors, 16 squads, one hour per squad per stage.

 

1/2 day format: AM squads (1-8) shoot 4 stages back to back 8 AM to 12 NOON. AM squads are done and may leave. Lunch from 12 NOON until 1 PM. PM squads (9-16) arrive at the range and shoot 4 stages back to back 1 PM to 5 PM. Reverse this schedule for the next day (1-8 start PM and 9-16 start AM).

 

Full day format: Squads 1-8 shoot 8 AM - 9AM, Squads 9-16 shoot 9 AM -10 AM and so on alternating until 5 PM.  Everyone shoots 4 stages - one on - one off. Reverse this schedule for the next day (1-8 start  9 AM and 9-16 start 8 AM).

 

Here's where it gets interesting: Let's stretch the start time back to 7 AM and only take 1/2 hour for lunch (basically RO lunch) and stretch stop time to 5:30 PM for the first day. For either format, match is DONE by 1:30 PM on the second day.

 

1/2 day format: everyone has to shoot 5 stages back to back, either AM or PM. The next day everyone shoots 3 stages back to back reversing AM and PM (PM start is 10 AM really). Match is done by 1:30 PM.

 

Full day format: everyone has to shoot 5 stages over the course of the day. The next day everyone shoots 3 stages one on - one off ( squads 9-16 start at 7 AM, 1-8 start 8 AM). Match is done by 1:30 PM.

 

The question becomes (and my complaint is) do you shoot stages back to back with no time in between, or do you shoot all day in a (IMHO - very much relaxed) schedule of one on - one off.

 

...keep it going...

 

ericm

Edited by ericm
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If I'm at the range from 7am to 5pm I'd like to be shooting the whole match that day. Not many other folks want to shoot a 10 stage 3 gun match or 12+ stage USPSA match in a day and that's fine. 1/2 day format at least allows me to arrive the morning of, spend fewer nights in a hotel, then leave early the next day. The 1 on 1 off all day format usually just ends up being sitting around waiting for another squad to shoot which is incredibly inefficient in my mind. I really don't care about taking time off to relax between stages. 

 

From the perspective of providing sponsors value, get folks engaged months before on social media. Make the awards mean something if you want folks to stick around. Have a shoot off, VS3G did an AWESOME job of this last year. Get a good caterer, I heard Walking Dead had Babes Fried Chicken (!!!) cater the match. If shooters are spending time with shooting friends eating GOOD food and drinking GOOD beer (or sweet tea) at the awards ceremony and perusing the sponsors tables everyone is excited. If you want to provide value for sponsors then do it! 

We all have our preferences. If you find you pack the match with shooters using a 1 on 1 off format then you've got a good match. If you pack the match with half day, then that's good too. Shooters will decide where the value is for them and attend accordingly. 

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Wouldnt even consider your all day times 2 to shoot 10 stages... Shoot a stage stand around for an extra hour ? really ?
So I am at the range from 7 to 5 and only shoot 5 stages ?
BAsically all you are doing is creating 20 man squads. 

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I hate shooting 4 or 5 stages in a full day. Standing around for 2 hours between shooting sucks. At almost 50 I like the split half day format. I tend to skip matches that require all day sitting around. Be there for 4 hours and shoot. 

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I agree with you, Eric.  I don't care for sight seeing, sleeping in, or sitting by the pool if there is a match going on. 

 

I'll shoot a good match even if it's 1/2 day format, but greatly prefer the traditional schedule.

 

and if someone just shoots their 39 seconds and then stands around for two hours to shoot the next stage, sounds like someone isn't doing their part to reset. 

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43 minutes ago, Bryan 45 said:

I agree with you, Eric.  I don't care for sight seeing, sleeping in, or sitting by the pool if there is a match going on. 

 

I'll shoot a good match even if it's 1/2 day format, but greatly prefer the traditional schedule.

 

and if someone just shoots their 39 seconds and then stands around for two hours to shoot the next stage, sounds like someone isn't doing their part to reset. 


This.  I'm there to shoot, not sit around.

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Completely disagree with the points for all day matches.  You do spend a huge amount of time sitting around.  Even if you're resetting it's still 2 hours on average between times you shoot.  I get bored, stiff, and lose focus.  I'll often help other squads reset just so I have something to do and keep limber.  If the weather is less than ideal then you're stuck in the rain/heat/cold/bugs for twice as long.

 

If you want to stay at the range all day and talk to your friends at a half day match do it.  Get there early and BS with the morning squads if you want or stay late to hang out with the afternoon guys, nothing is stopping you.  I do that sometimes, with half day matches you have your choice if you want to spend the entire day at the range or go do something else.

 

As for food vendors, it's not even necessary to have food vendors at half day matches.  Saves the MD the trouble of lining one up and competitors have time to eat at the restaurant of their choice, they're not at the mercy of whatever food truck shows up.  I almost never eat match food during the day anyway.  If I'm going to be there all day I want a light lunch so I've got to pack something.

 

I'm a lot more likely to go visit vendors and do side shoots at half day matches.  At all day matches I don't know how long the wait to shoot is going to be until I get to the stage.  Sometimes there's no wait and your squad is ready to go and other times there are two squads stacked up ahead of you.  I'm not likely to get back in my car and drive back to the vendor area at that point.  Half day matches if I shoot in the morning, once I'm done I go check out the vendors and side shoots.

 

I've got a wife and kids so I don't get to come to matches days before or stay late.  Oftentimes half day matches are the only time I get to go out and decide what I want to do on my own.  I go to museums, go see a movie, eat at the restaurant I want, shop, have a drink, sight see, or watch TV in my hotel room in peace and quiet.

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Match Director here...my situation is different than most...no restaurants, very little sight seeing...takes over 20 minutes sometimes to get from one stage to another, just driving.

BUT - even for berm matches where you just move next door...I TOO, feel rushed...no time to breath, take my gear off and go to the bathroom...it's a production for girls...no time to drink some water or have a snack without neglecting resetting or not being prepared to shoot. Last shooter on a stage is completely brain dead as they are always running up for the shooter's briefing on the next stage and can't really hear. If your gun has issues, no time to go fix it or find parts without neglecting resetting or running around like a chicken with your head cut off. I like to talk to the squad ahead of me as they shoot and as they are packing up to move on...they can do it in a leisurely fashion on a one on- one off schedule, so I can ask them questions AFTER they are done shooting, so I'm not screwing with their train of thought.

 

Also, for scheduling purposes...going straight from one stage to another means that if one stage gets behind, ALL the stages are behind because that squad can't get to their next stage in time...in one on, one off, they may not have time to chat if they come off a backed up stage, but the next stage won't start late...unless they're backed up as well.

 

If you only shoot 5 minutes at a major match, you need to try some different matches...fastest times on our stages are over a minute...often over 100 seconds...you get plenty of shooting. In a stage 100 yards long, having time to watch, help reset, can give you a better idea of where all the targets are so you know the stages better and see what rocks to avoid.

 

I do think people act more relaxed on one on - one off...but I also understand that some people are trying to vacation and want to drink earlier or what have you.

 

We can't shoot them in a row at Rocky Mountain...shooters can't even get to the stages. At He-Man, we have a smaller match...7 stages, 7 squads, they shoot straight through, but the schedule gives them 90 minutes to shoot and 30 minutes to get to the next stage which can be over 10 miles away...They only shoot 4 on Saturday and 3 on Sunday...they break for a lunch and we have a big shoot-off on Saturday afternoon...but that match is mellow anyway. Everyone seems to be in a good mood even if it's raining, snowing and fogging!

 

It kind of depends on what you what from your matches...I go to be with 3-gunners...who I think are cool...shoot and have fun. I HATE being afternoon squad on half day format the first day...I have shot in the dark EVERY time! 

 

As far as food service...they do like it better if people are kind of captured...at RM3G, they are anyway...not that many places to eat in Raton...a few good ones that sponsor us, but you know what I mean. 

I see no difference in parking...same number of squads show up...the one shooting, the next one and maybe the next if they're running fast...but we park (and sometimes walk a ways) at each stage. If it was berms...still have the same number of squads near the stages... However, as a shooter, I hate being afternoon squad at berm matches because there is no where to park when you arrive as the morning squads haven't finished when you get there, so there is no place to go...then you have to move your car after everyone leaves and then you are rushing again.

 

Anyway to each his own!

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Have to agree to disagree, Eric.  I prefer 1/2 day format if possible.  I would rather shoot and be getting ready to shoot rather than sit for hours and hours at the range doing nothing except talking to Eric M.

 

 I do not select matches on the basis of this however.

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As Jimmy Carter would say: "Gentlemen, I basically agree with both of you"  :D

 

As a COMPETITOR, I prefer a full-day format because the shooting pace is much more relaxed. As Eric has indicated, scrambling from one stage to the next is unnecessarily stressful in 3-Gun because you have 3 x the equipment and ammo, and may also be moving belt kit around for the next stage. Furthermore, 3-Gun stages tend to be more complicated, so it is nice to watch the previous squad without having to worry about resetting. Frankly, I just don't feel like I shoot my best in a half-day  3-Gun match. With one gun, it is a different story of course.

 

As a MATCH DIRECTOR, I see pros and cons. On the plus side, the full day format gives me a sizable time buffer in the event that a stage runs slow (no knock-on effect), and it may give vendors more face time with competitors (depending on the event layout). On the minus side, keeping all the shooters on-site all-day causes parking congestion, I have to provide more shade/water/amenities, and in hot conditions I may have to deal with heat-exhausted competitors. Either way, I need to be mindful of what my customers prefer.

 

An interesting option we have discussed is the "hybrid" schedule. This could offer squadding with both options available according to competitor preference, or it could be some combination of full-day and half-day for everyone. In a match with a prize table by placement, the schedule would ideally have everyone on-site during the protest period and immediately thereafter.

 

Eric: A poll would be interesting.

Edited by StealthyBlagga
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