Timer Pick Up problem with PCC's

[Patrick Scott]

From what I have seen from behind the timer is this is not a PCC only problem, while you may have a higher percentage of missed shots while timing PCC shooters the problem exists with other Minor PF guns as well. Some of the Minor revolvers are really quite and if the gun is stuck through a port or around a solid wall shots get missed. Some stage designs make it hard to stick close to the shooter for safety reasons as well. I think its impossible to get 100% of a shooters shots on the timer 100% of the time regardless of the division.  We have to just do the best we can and hand out reshoots when needed. 

[9x45]

Thomas "I personally find that suppressed PCCs are the easiest to time. Appendix D8, #11:  Suppressors permitted:  No."

 

Yes, I know, but this was not a USPSA match, it was an LEO only match.

[Thomas H]

49 minutes ago, 9x45 said:

Thomas "I personally find that suppressed PCCs are the easiest to time. Appendix D8, #11:  Suppressors permitted:  No."

 

Yes, I know, but this was not a USPSA match, it was an LEO only match.

 

Ah.  Since it was in the USPSA Rules forum, I assumed it was in (or at least referencing) a USPSA match.

 

[9x45]

Yea, lot's of LEO matches have full suppressors, some are really quite, even with full house ammo. Hard to clock  unless  you are right on the bolt.

[Sarge]

Only qu stion I have about holding near the bolt is how do you know you are not picking up the bolt closing instead of last shot?

[CHA-LEE]

I have had good luck with the below process.......

 

If I see a PCC shooter(s) on the squad I ask them "Who has the quietest PCC?". Then I take that shooter down range with their PCC and do a few test fire rounds at varied distances away from them. This way I can fine tune the sensitivity of the timer and my distance away from the shooter to accurately pick up the shots. This process only takes a minute or two at the most and ensures that I will be able to get a valid time of all the PCC shooters in the match. I deployed this process while ROing the Area 1 match and it worked out great and we had zero timer issues.

[Darqusoull13]

Hey Dave, 

In addition to Cha-lee and others have suggested, I would like to suggest the following: 

• Ask the shooter their plan. You're trying to help them save ammo, they can tell you the plan so you can follow them as best as you're able.
• Ensure the sensor is pointed towards the shooter and hold the timer out away from your body. 
• If the shots are too quiet to pick up standing near the shooter, the ejection port is your best option
• Tell the shooter the re-shoot Gods are cruel and fickle. One big reason I'm using a loud comp is to ensure the RO doesn't have to hug me to get a time.

At the end of the day they should at least be meeting power factor in USPSA so they shouldn't be too mouse fart there. If it's 3 gun just have the PCCers time each other. Everyone should be learning how to RO so they can pitch in anyways. 

PS: Dave just doesn't like PCC because his snoot is sensitive about getting hit with brass 

[Dave Campbell]

Guys, Thanks for the input.  I will try a number of the suggestions . 

Shot  a match Sun and had 3 PCC shooters in the squad, and no problems at all .

The timer was worked in the normal manner, near the right shoulder of the shooter. 

The really quiet guns were not there and next time they are, we get as close as we can,

with the understanding that without getting the last shot it will be a reshoot

I still don't want to get close enough to be in the peripheral vison, and get hit with the brass. 

Getting hit with the brass is not fun, but getting hot brass in your shirt hurts.  

Maybe part of the problem is that I still want to treat the PCC shooters the same as everyone else, and that might not work for them all. 

[JAFO]

Maybe someone will invent a timer selfie stick. 

[Sarge]

Ah, I remember the days when the powers that be said PCC’s won’t change the way we do things. 

[IHAVEGAS]

On 11/8/2017 at 2:53 PM, Sarge said:

Ah, I remember the days when the powers that be said PCC’s won’t change the way we do things. 

 

It does seem like the rifles would be required to suit the sport rather than the other way around.

 

Can't cost that much to get the volume on the really quiet guns up to revolver level. SPL meters for equipment checks are cheap. 

[CHA-LEE]

Having a minimum report db level on PCC's doesn't seem like an unreasonable requirement.

[Gary Stevens]

Hmmm. New market for noise enhancement devices.

[AWLAZS]

On 11/8/2017 at 3:53 PM, Sarge said:

Ah, I remember the days when the powers that be said PCC’s won’t change the way we do things. 

I was thinking the exact same thing. You can keep your health plan.

 

[AWLAZS]

On 11/9/2017 at 8:21 PM, IHAVEGAS said:

 

It does seem like the rifles would be required to suit the sport rather than the other way around.

 

Can't cost that much to get the volume on the really quiet guns up to revolver level. SPL meters for equipment checks are cheap. 

I said this very thing on a different thread about this topic. I was told I was a hater.

[teros135]

1 hour ago, AWLAZS said:

I said this very thing on a different thread about this topic. I was told I was a hater.

 

Yes, that's how it works. 

[Patrick Scott]

1 hour ago, AWLAZS said:

I said this very thing on a different thread about this topic. I was told I was a hater.

Well Cinderella...

[AWLAZS]

Funny one Patty

[IHAVEGAS]

8 hours ago, AWLAZS said:

I said this very thing on a different thread about this topic. I was told I was a hater.

 

You probably aren't politically correct either. 

[Fuelie777]

Only issue I have incurred, was on a stage that the PCC shooter started out in hammock then ran to  the front of the stage for gun retrieval with a decision to engage targets there or back up.   Some would engage at the front, and some would haul ass back and take the longer shots.  As an slightly older RO, moving backwards sooner helps the shooter.  Typically was never a problem, until a very quiet PCC bull pup came up, and after the first shot attempt( up front) while I in the rear about 5 feet, the firearm had a jam that the competitor had to give up on.  The timer had 0 for the time, even after a couple of shots.  Re-Shoot.  

 

My issue is not to interfere with the competitor, but on a stage similar to what I described it can be an issue as trying to predict when the competitor is going to move and how fast can be a determent.  Just another item to pay attention to with PCC "quietness".

[fishhunter3]

I have had a few reshoots with my MPX, I seems like every time it happens the RO has the timer backwards with the mike covered by there palm, so now I just ask the RO to point the mike at the gun and all is right with the world, nothing has to change with stage design or how the RO times PCC, 

[IHAVEGAS]

On 11/28/2017 at 1:41 PM, fishhunter3 said:

nothing has to change with stage design or how the RO times PCC, 

 

Don't know how loud your gun is or if you have shot a rain match with a protective bag on the timer. With some of the guns/loads that is 100% not true, rain or not. 

 

Not being a turd, I've just ran several pcc shooters at level 1 and 2 matches with several different timers all set to maximum sensitivity. 

 

 

[Shadyscott999]

Just make minimum PCC power factor 150.  Problem solved.   

[Patrick Scott]

39 minutes ago, Shadyscott999 said:

Just make minimum PCC power factor 150.  Problem solved.   

Im not opposed to this, especially the entertainment value the drama would provide. 

[Shadyscott999]

Just now, Patrick Scott said:

Im not opposed to this, especially the entertainment value the drama would provide. 

 

I am already running that in the MPX.