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VIHTAVUORI N320 VS Titegroup

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I have been loading with titegroup and love it because of the price I shoot alot for uspsa. I am running Gallent 125's and it smokes alot. I'm wanting to know if switching to n320 is worth the additional cost vs titegroup. I've heard titegroup and coated bullets just smoke alot and that's the name of the game. I'd switch if it really does shoot cleaner and smoke less.

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Of course 320 is better than TG. It’s better than anything. If you do some quick math you will realize expensive powder isn’t all that expensive. 

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~$8 per 1k rounds vs titegroup for 9mm minor loads. Titegroup works fine for me *shrug*

 

Assuming free brass - .03 primer, .06 coated 124 grain bullets 

 

VV N320 is roughly .018 per round, titegroup is just under .01 (rough math assuming ~4gr load)

 

I'd rather save 9.25% on each completed round and stick with titegroup. But there are a lot of others that disagree. 

Edited by MHitchcock

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23 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Of course 320 is better than TG

For me, it's much softer shooting. As Sarge was trying to say, we have much more money tied up in our gear, travel, match fees, etc. and that the incremental cost of N320 is well worth it.

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Ive never found TG to be very dirty to be honest, and Ive run my 5" M&P Pro over a 2000 rounds with TG and 147s just to see last summer over a couple of range trips.  Had no issues, maintenance was minimal, just a couple of drops of oil on the slide and barrel hood before shooting.  Cleanup was the same as any other powder, just hose the slide with cleaner of choice, scrub it a little, rinse with BrakeClean, grease/oil, assemble. 

 

The one thing it is is hot.  Not ruin HiTek or plated bullet hot, but it will warm your gun up when you shoot 4-5 mags thru the gun in short order.

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I've been loading Clays in my coated 125gr loads for years, but I recently switched to shooting Glocks a lot and it smokes like crazy.  So much so that I've had it obscure targets during a stage when the wind was calm.  I hate changing loads, but the smoke is so bad that it's causing problems.

 

I loaded up test loads this weekend with N320, TG, and Bullseye.  I'm going to try to get out to the range with my chrono this week and test them all side-by-side.

Edited by TennJeep1618

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For me, N320 shoots a little bit better than TG with the same bullets and the same pistol. 

 

Even if N320 only shot as well, I'd still prefer it over TG, because of less gunk that gets into every nook and cranny of the action with TG.  It is possible that someone running a heavier load of TG won't get as much filth in the action as I do, but I am loading close to minimum PF with both powders.  

 

As noted above, the difference in cost per round is so small as to be inconsequential.  Using my own cost spreadsheet that includes shipping and taxes as part of the equation, I calculate a difference between a round loaded with TG and N320 as one half cent per round (actually, 0.501494 cent).  I think that even I can afford that!  

 

If you are cleaning with aerosol solvents, you might not mind all the additional crud, because you are blowing it out with the spray.  However, the increased cost and increased health concerns with aerosols keep them on the shelf for me.  Not to mention where the crud ends up!  I only use aerosol solvent as a last resort.  (Probably a result of working 37.5 years in the Health and Safety field...)  

 

As always, everyone has their own opinion, and what works for me may or may not work work for you. 

 

I still use my TG for shooting plated bullets...  AND, I prefer that others use TG.  Perhaps that will help with the availability of N320!  :D

 

Additionally, there are some bullet manufacturers who say their coating won't work with TG.  It am assuming because it is too hot!  Here is one such statement:  

 

image.thumb.png.30777cfaf6c9f110f903b2fb304b59c5.png

 

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I've shot both TG and 320 in 9 minor a lot. Both are very good powders. Both were consistent at L2 and L3 chrono like they were at home. The price and availability difference are what people usually argue about. I have a slightly different take:

I switched to 320 for the simple fact that I can leave it in the powder hopper without it turning the hopper brown like TG does. This simple change made reloading at my volume much more enjoyable as I could reload a few hundred here and there. With TG I would drain the powder hopper.

I still use a lot of TG today but only for periodic batches/loads.

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8 minutes ago, MNshooter said:

I've shot both TG and 320 in 9 minor a lot. Both are very good powders. Both were consistent at L2 and L3 chrono like they were at home. The price and availability difference are what people usually argue about. I have a slightly different take:

I switched to 320 for the simple fact that I can leave it in the powder hopper without it turning the hopper brown like TG does. This simple change made reloading at my volume much more enjoyable as I could reload a few hundred here and there. With TG I would drain the powder hopper.

I still use a lot of TG today but only for periodic batches/loads.

 

Or just don't worry about a stained powder hopper :) 

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What about N330? I think I read on VV’s website that it is THE 9mm Minor powder.

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10 minutes ago, NicoR said:

What about N330? I think I read on VV’s website that it is THE 9mm Minor powder.

Not as soft as N320, but still very good.

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My experience with N320 and Titegroup has shown 320 to be both cleaner and softer shooting than Titegroup. What I've shot a lot of this past year is Nobel Sport Prima V. The newer batches are fairly close to 320 in terms of burn rate, and it shoots cool and clean. All that said, N320 is by far my favorite powder for loading 9mm. Its just so consistent from batch to batch. I had a 4lb jug I bought in 2000 and out of that I loaded 4.1gr under a MG 124gr jhp which gave me about a 133pf out of my Glock 34. I used the same load last year....same bullet...same pistol even.....and I was loading from a 4lb jug of N320 I bought just last year....pretty much the same results....132pf. The stuff is damn good!

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I have found that Sport Pistol and N320 gives the least amount of smoke with coated bullets than anything else i have tried. If you can't find 320 try some Sport Pistol, it is nearly smokeless with coated bullets and is much cheaper than N320.

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13 hours ago, NicoR said:

What about N330? I think I read on VV’s website that it is THE 9mm Minor powder.

 

N330 is designed for 9mm, yes. But not for loading close to Minor. It is good when loading for more power but N320 has its "sweet spot" when just trying to make Minor in 9mm.

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I have loads developed for 9mm minor and .40 major.  Both loads burn clean and are pleasant to shoot, low/no 'snappiness' from the .40

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I've found that titegroup burns much hotter, and after awhile, melts my FO front sight. It's also more temperature sensitive. It's really fast in hot summer weather, and gets much slower in winter weather.

N320 is definitely cooler, and has shown no sign of melting my FO sights yet. And so far, I've found it more consistent in various temperatures. Though I haven't chrono'd it yet in winter cold weather.

But since I have so much titegroup left, I use titegroup for practice loads, and N320 for matches.

Edited by Postal Bob

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3 minutes ago, Postal Bob said:

...

N320 ... so far, I've found it more consistent in various temperatures. Though I haven't chrono'd it yet in winter cold weather.

...

 

I don't bother with chronoing in winter, as there's no local matches, but someone just tried some loads that safely made PF in summer. He was below PF when chronoing below the freezing point. N320 is also affected by temps.

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I once never cared about powder, and thought I would never try such a gourmet powder such as N320, but the Obamascare years gave me no choice - at one point it was the only powder available.  I am glad I tried it and used it exclusively for years in the past regime. : ) it is very comfortable to shoot, and I have more than one occasion shot my TG loads and N320 back to back to find (surprisingly) that N320 (for me) shoots a drastically titer group (pun intended).

 

Like Postal Bob I use TG to plink and N320 at matches.

My calcs show half a cent difference too.  I save about $190 per year shooting TG.  Even at half a cent $190 is still $190. 

I have gotten so comfortable with the impulse of TG that it feels weird going to another powder.  Another powder that isn't N320 that is.

 

Calc out how much you shoot in a year and that puts things in better perspective.

If they were the same price heck yeah I would use N320 all day long and twice on Saturdays.

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Where are you guys finding vihtavouri n320 cheap enough to be within 1/2 a cent of titegroup? Everything I've looked at is more like 7/10ths of a cent per round. 

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I think my calcs were like 6/10th.  I get mine from Powder Valley.  Perhaps a rounding error (laziness) involved : )

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58 minutes ago, Sniperboy said:

I think my calcs were like 6/10th.  I get mine from Powder Valley.  Perhaps a rounding error (laziness) involved : )


It is 7/10th when I price online vs online but I'm assuming similar charges - I guess I don't know if you use slightly less n320 for same PF or not (haven't gotten that far). I can get a local store to price match for titegroup so I just pay tax instead of hazmat. So with that in mind the price difference is more like 8/10th. 

Edited by MHitchcock

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I use titegroup in 9 & 40. I prefer N320, but  ran out and have not made an order. I still have 16# of TG. I like 320 since I can shoot for a month and the gun is still clean. I will order some for next season and use TG for practice. I don't mind the extra cost since it runs clean in my pcc.

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I did the math again (without liberally rounding down to make it sound nice)..  at +.2 grains of N320 over TG used its more like 7 to 8/10th of a cent difference.  You're right : ).

Even if you used an equal weight of TG = N320 the difference is 7/10 of a cent.

 

If you clean your guns religiously then TG will annoy you.  If you're lazy like me and only clean 3x a year you'll get over the frosting TG gives you...  you may even get a kick out of it and wear it like a badge of honour.

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