What is your favorite load for your PCC?

[L9X25]

Mikie,

 

Gasses blow around the projectile during the transition period (throat) and that will usually necessitate more powder to make up for the gas which is lost.

 

Bench rest shooters are looking for the optimum consistency, so they want nothing left to chance.  They want to barely kiss the projectile into the lands, so that there is no "jump" from the case into the rifling.  The jump can introduce some inconsistency.  Doing this likely causes a pressure bump, but I do not think that they push the envelope on pressure anyway, so it should not be a big issue for them.  For the sake of pressure, you want the gap, for the sake of accuracy you would want to eliminate the jump.  

 

Old3Gnr,

 

Every barrel is different, and every round is different.  I do not see enough variance to come to any conclusions.  A few FPS either way could be attributed, to temperature, elevation, random chance etc. Shooting the same ammo, in the same gun, could yield that amount of difference from day to day.     When I tried the popular 3.5 TG under a 115FMJ load in my JP barrel, I was ~400FPS slow and got black sooty cases.  I ended up having to add a full grain of powder to reach the desired velocity. 

 

 

[zzt]

8 hours ago, MikieM said:

While I'm thinking on it, don't the Bench Rest guys like their bullets just touching the lands?

 

Not just bench rest shooters.  Bullseye shooters do the same.  It can make a surprising difference.

[JAFO]

1. KE Arms billet lower, NFA slickside upper, NFA modular bolt, 16" Nordic barrel, 15" UTG Pro handguard, Lantac Dragon comp, CMC trigger, Strike Industries Viper Mod-1 stock, heavy carbine buffer, standard carbine spring, and $2.75 in quarters in the buffer tube to limit bolt overtravel.
2. Ibejihead 124gr CNFB
3. 3.6gr Titegroup
4. Federal or Winchester
5. 1.08" OAL.  I'm using the same load that I use for my X5 in Production and for my wife's PPQ.  The PPQ has a very short chamber, hence the short OAL.
6. 100%, but I only have ~450 rounds through it.
7. Haven't tested from a rest yet.  I plan to chrono from a rest in the next few weeks.  I'll put a target out at 25 yards to check grouping.
8. It feels a lot softer than a 10.5" SBR that I shot recently, but I haven't shot enough other PCCs to give a good comparison.
9. Don't know.
10. It moves more than I'd like, but I'm not sure how much of that is my technique and how much is the gun.  It moves a lot more than a stroked open pistol I shot that had a tungsten sleeved barrel and 12 popple holes.  I'm new to PCC, and don't shoot rifles often, so I want to work on my technique before I try a Blitzkrieg buffer and springs.

I get a lot of soot in the action after a match, but it wipes out easily.  The comp is getting a lot of buildup, especially in the small rear top holes.  I'm planning on getting some Carbon Killer or Kroil to try to loosen that up.  This is the only load I've tried so far.  It chrono's with a SD of 6 in my X5 and gives me 136PF out of that gun.  Unless it chrono's poorly or the groups suck, I probably won't change it.

[mktt89]

Running titegroup 3.0gr with 147 extreme.  On a cz scorpion, runs perfect

[JAFO]

On 11/16/2017 at 6:39 PM, JAFO said:

1. KE Arms billet lower, NFA slickside upper, NFA modular bolt, 16" Nordic barrel, 15" UTG Pro handguard, Lantac Dragon comp, CMC trigger, Strike Industries Viper Mod-1 stock, heavy carbine buffer, standard carbine spring, and $2.75 in quarters in the buffer tube to limit bolt overtravel.
2. Ibejihead 124gr CNFB
3. 3.6gr Titegroup
4. Federal or Winchester
5. 1.08" OAL.  I'm using the same load that I use for my X5 in Production and for my wife's PPQ.  The PPQ has a very short chamber, hence the short OAL.
6. 100%, but I only have ~450 rounds through it.
7. Haven't tested from a rest yet.  I plan to chrono from a rest in the next few weeks.  I'll put a target out at 25 yards to check grouping.

 

Following up on this.  I chrono'd 20 rounds of the above load.  Average velocity was 1204 fps with a Std Dev of 7, giving a PF = 149.  All 20 shots were all in a 3.25" group at 25 yards off an improvised rest.  Subtracting the 3 shots that were away from the others, the group was 2".  Not stellar, but not horrible.

[MikieM]

I chronographed my 10.5 inch barrel/extension using 3.6 grains of N320 under a 124 grain jacketed RN (seated to 1.130 inches) and came up with velocity of 1029 (a ten round average). This computed to a PF of 127, on a cool day.

I have yet to see how accurate it is, but recoil was very mild, and the load was clean burning with only a small amount of soot.

One more grain of powder could be added to keep the PF on the safe side, but I like it as close as possible. Less powder means less recoil, and less recoil means less dot jump.

[JAFO]

8 hours ago, MikieM said:

I chronographed my 10.5 inch barrel/extension using 3.6 grains of N320 under a 124 grain jacketed RN (seated to 1.130 inches) and came up with velocity of 1029 (a ten round average). This computed to a PF of 127, on a cool day.

I have yet to see how accurate it is, but recoil was very mild, and the load was clean burning with only a small amount of soot.

One more grain of powder could be added to keep the PF on the safe side, but I like it as close as possible. Less powder means less recoil, and less recoil means less dot jump.

 

Titegroup is definitely very sooty.  I've also got some lead buildup in the comp.  Scraping that out might improve accuracy a little.  I'm curious about the Prima V powder, as some guys are saying it's like a much cheaper N320.

 

I'm not nipping on GM's heels in any Division, so my plan right now would be to get the rifle running as well as I can with my current pistol load.    I ordered a Blitzkrieg and a few different springs on Black Friday, so I'm eager to see how well that tames the dot jump.  I'm hoping to avoid having 2 different loads for the same caliber.  I've seen a few people fail to make Minor at LII's because they brought the wrong ammo.  But I suppose if it comes down to that, I could load them with different colored bullets to make it easy to distinguish between the pistol load and a PCC load that might not make minor in the pistol.

[MikieM]

1 hour ago, JAFO said:

 

Titegroup is definitely very sooty.  I've also got some lead buildup in the comp.  Scraping that out might improve accuracy a little.  I'm curious about the Prima V powder, as some guys are saying it's like a much cheaper N320.

 

I'm not nipping on GM's heels in any Division, so my plan right now would be to get the rifle running as well as I can with my current pistol load.    I ordered a Blitzkrieg and a few different springs on Black Friday, so I'm eager to see how well that tames the dot jump.  I'm hoping to avoid having 2 different loads for the same caliber.  I've seen a few people fail to make Minor at LII's because they brought the wrong ammo.  But I suppose if it comes down to that, I could load them with different colored bullets to make it easy to distinguish between the pistol load and a PCC load that might not make minor in the pistol.

 

Titegroup can run a little hot on a Summer's day, too.

If your bullet is touching any lead deposits as it exits the barrel, then yes, accuracy could be compromised.

I don't know anything about the Prima V. Do a search and see if something shows up.

I'm using a Blitzkrieg buffer in both guns, and really like them. My current springs are JP 308 carbines, but I'm not too crazy about that set-up. There seems to be some harshness as the bolt goes back, and then again on closing. I have a couple of Blitzkrieg "Blue" springs to try as soon as the weather improves. 

One load makes life easier, that's for sure.

[rr4406pak]

1. 14.5" JP Stainless barrel with JP Pinned Comp. JP 9MM Bolt, JP SCS, Odinworks upper,  Elfman match trigger, Vltor stock, QC10 lower.

2. 124gr Xtreme round nose.

3. 3.6gr Titegroup.

4. Federal small magnum primers.

5. 1.13"

6. Terrible. Not reliable at all.

7. Not bad under 50yds. At 100 yds terrible.

8. Average recoil. Pretty bouncy actually.(My .223 is WAY smoother).

9. Average split times. Nothing special.

10. Dot jumps a good bit.

 

Been trying to get this JP stuff to run for a year (about 2000+ rounds so far) with spotty luck. Swapping out the JP bolt with a TACCOM bolt in the hopes I can get the trigger to reset reliably. Have a ton of shots where the trigger does reset but goes "click" and doesn't fire. No mark on the primer afterwards either.

Wish I could go back in time and have chosen something else.

[MikieM]

3 hours ago, rr4406pak said:

1. 14.5" JP Stainless barrel with JP Pinned Comp. JP 9MM Bolt, JP SCS, Odinworks upper,  Elfman match trigger, Vltor stock, QC10 lower.

2. 124gr Xtreme round nose.

3. 3.6gr Titegroup.

4. Federal small magnum primers.

5. 1.13"

6. Terrible. Not reliable at all.

7. Not bad under 50yds. At 100 yds terrible.

8. Average recoil. Pretty bouncy actually.(My .223 is WAY smoother).

9. Average split times. Nothing special.

10. Dot jumps a good bit.

 

Been trying to get this JP stuff to run for a year (about 2000+ rounds so far) with spotty luck. Swapping out the JP bolt with a TACCOM bolt in the hopes I can get the trigger to reset reliably. Have a ton of shots where the trigger does reset but goes "click" and doesn't fire. No mark on the primer afterwards either.

Wish I could go back in time and have chosen something else.

 

A couple of suggestions. No guarantees.

I would be more concerned about the trigger itself rather than the bolt. Many of us have had gotten good performance from the Hiperfire 24C trigger. It's worth considering.

I would also think about changing powders. With the 14 inch barrel you can take advantage of the push of a slower powder rather than the pop of a fast powder like Titegroup. WSF, WST, N320, or several others, could work for you. 

[rr4406pak]

Regarding the 9mm trigger:

I have found that the standard .223 carrier is "thicker" than the 9mm carrier.

Why on God's green Earth would they make 9mm bolts thinner is beyond me.

TACCOM is one of the only companies that make their 9mm bolt as thick as the .223 bolt.

Thus, you are able to use ANY trigger that works in your .223 without issue.

[L9X25]

The reason they go thinner on the bolt is because they want them to be compatible with Glock style mags.  

 

I started with a complete JP rifle and it was 100% for over 2,000 rounds, not a single jam or hiccup.  I changed the upper to an

NFA side charging upper, Taccom bolt, Taccom Barrel, Blitzkrieg buffer,  and the JP lower and trigger are still 100% reliable with

all of the changes.   My JP upper also worked perfectly with the Taccom bolt installed.

 

The problem is most likely with your trigger.  There are several triggers that work with practically any combination of components 

(HyperFire, JP, etc) and there are others that will only work reliably with a specific set of components. 

 

I am pretty sure that none of the JP components are to blame for your problems.

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by L9X25

[ToddKS]

 rr440,

 

What you are describing sounds very similar to the issues I had when I tried running my SD-3G trigger in my 9mm. I switched to a Hiperfire 24 3gun and now have no trigger issues.

 

 

 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I have two more for a Sig MPX 16" factory barrel. 115gr Xtreme 3.7gr Tite Group WSP and a OAL of 1.145". Next one is 124gr Xtreme 3.4gr Tite Group WSP and the same 1.145" OAL. Both are in the 131-134PF range and cycle perfectly. I have not enough of the 124's so I am not sure which load I like more. The Sig likes lighter bullets. Thanks, Eric

[Nemesis Lead]

Reading this thread is a little depressing.  There seems to be no clear consensus on light vs heavy bullets and slow vs fast powders.

[MikieM]

The other day (we had one in the 60's) I went to the range with two boxes of ammo. One contained 124 grain RN's with N320 powder, the other 115 grain RN's with WSF. Both make PF near 130. My goal was to see if I could tell which load felt the softest out of a 16 inch barrel. Nothing else.

First, I loaded a magazine with 20 rounds, and alternated them. One round a 115, the next a 124, etc. After shooting into the berm, at a fairly slow pace, I could not really feel any noticeable difference between the two. I knew which round would come first, but after the third, or fourth, I had lost track and they all seemed the same.

Next, I loaded 5 rounds into a magazine with 124's and slowly shot them into the berm, followed by a mag with 5 rounds of the 115's. It was here where I could tell a slight difference. The 115's, with WSF, felt softer. Not much, mind you, but nonetheless I could feel it.   

Scientific? Not by a long shot. It's just one of those seat-of-the-pants kind of things that might help make a choice between the two. Blazing through a stage you probably wouldn't notice any difference at all.

Never-the-less, I am still a proponent of short barrel, fast powder, heavy bullet. Long barrel, slow powder, light bullet.  

Edited December 24, 2017 by MikieM

[L9X25]

Mikie,

 

If you have some N340, load it under some 115's and report back.  My gut tells me that might be the best combo.

[MikieM]

41 minutes ago, L9X25 said:

Mikie,

 

If you have some N340, load it under some 115's and report back.  My gut tells me that might be the best combo.

 

Funny you should mention that. I had been thinking the same thing, lately. I'll see what I can come up with, although snow is in the forecast.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

On 12/4/2017 at 4:43 PM, rr4406pak said:

1. 14.5" JP Stainless barrel with JP Pinned Comp. JP 9MM Bolt, JP SCS, Odinworks upper,  Elfman match trigger, Vltor stock, QC10 lower.

2. 124gr Xtreme round nose.

3. 3.6gr Titegroup.

4. Federal small magnum primers.

5. 1.13"

6. Terrible. Not reliable at all.

7. Not bad under 50yds. At 100 yds terrible.

8. Average recoil. Pretty bouncy actually.(My .223 is WAY smoother).

9. Average split times. Nothing special.

10. Dot jumps a good bit.

 

Been trying to get this JP stuff to run for a year (about 2000+ rounds so far) with spotty luck. Swapping out the JP bolt with a TACCOM bolt in the hopes I can get the trigger to reset reliably. Have a ton of shots where the trigger does reset but goes "click" and doesn't fire. No mark on the primer afterwards either.

Wish I could go back in time and have chosen something else.

 

I got a stock JP GMR-13 setup, but replaced the trigger with a Hiperfire 24E.  The new trigger ran perfectly.

147 gr. bullets had a large group size at 25 yards (at least 4").  Going to 115 gr. or 124 gr. heads fixed the problem, and group sizes shrank substantially, to the point that the holes were touching.  Even 90 gr. bullets worked well.

My gun (14.5" barrel + pinned comp) felt better with a slower powder like HS-6 or N350 rather than N320 or Titegroup.  More of a "push" than a hard slap.

As always, try different bullets and powders and see which work better for you.

[Neomet]

If you don't mind sharing what is your load with the 115s and HS6?  JHPs or moly?  

 

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

I haven't chrono'd the load yet, I just tested for functionality and feel, but I ran with Xtreme 115 gr. rn bullets and  6.7 gr. of HS-6 and it seemed fine.  I suspect the PF is somewhere around 134, but it needs to be verified.

[L9X25]

That sounds like a lot of powder for 130pf, I agree totally about the push vs slap.  Tite Group is a slap, WSF is a push.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

8 minutes ago, L9X25 said:

That sounds like a lot of powder for 130pf, I agree totally about the push vs slap.  Tite Group is a slap, WSF is a push.

I suspect the actual pf may be higher - I was only checking for what worked and how it felt.  Actual load development will be done in the spring.

[L9X25]

It may not be as fast as I initially thought, it only shows to be about 1150fps out of a 5" barrel. 

 

That should likely equate to 1250-1300fps out of the longer barrel.  

[Rolex]

PD 115 FMJ N320 4.5gr. Nice. Clean-