Match Score vs. Match Recognition

[nuidad]

Can anyone tell me the difference between match score and match recognition?

 

Since the inclusion of the PCC Division, we are seeing a lot more competitors shooting two Divisions.  Since Level I matches allow competitors to enter multiple Divisions for match recognition, does it matter which Division they shoot first...do they have to declare which Division they are shooting for match score and shoot that Division first?

 

6.2.4 Subject to the prior approval of the Match Director, a competitor may enter a match in more than one Division. However, the competitor may compete for match score in only one Division, and that must be the first attempt in all cases. Any subsequent attempts in another Division will not count for match recognition.

6.2.4.1 Level I matches may allow competitors to enter multiple Divisions for match recognition.

 

Are many of you seeing this same increase in multiple Division participation?  We had 5 of our 11 competitors shoot multiple Divisions (PCC) last weekend...and the number is growing. 

 

 

[ktm300]

Not sure I care about the recognition part but I really don't like it when people shoot 2 divisions at the same time.  

Shot a match that allowed it and our squad had 4 people shooting pistol and PCC.  10 person squad, 4 people not able to help as they were shooting two divisions = a royal PITA for the other 6 folks.  

 

I won't shoot any more matches where this is allowed.  

 

 

[Racinready300ex]

I think it's saying you can shoot in more than one division, but only one division really counts, and it has to be your first attempt at each stage. This way you don't get practice runs to better your score in a certain division.

 

Otherwise, someone would enter as L10 and production. They'd run the stage in L10, as a warm up to work the kinks out of there plan. Then run it again in production with the goal of winning production. This wouldn't be fair, and would probably lead to everyone doing it.

 

I for one hope our local matches don't start allowing people to run multiple divisions. That would be a PIA.

[motosapiens]

we don't allow multiple divisions because it creates an unfair workload for everyone else. at best, shooting a single division removes a shooter from taping and resetting and RO/scorekeeping responsibilities for at least 3 and usually 4-5 runs. Shooting a second division prevents them from helping reset for another few shooters, shifting the burden to everyone else.  My recommendation is just run the PCC match separately afterwards.

[nuidad]

Yes to all...it does put some additional burden on the single Division shooters.  So far everyone here has been very supportive to the multiple Division shooters, but we want to (at least) keep it fair as far as scoring.  We are now putting all the PCC shooters (all are multiple Division shooters) at the end of the stage.  Question is, would that be fair if they were shooting their PCC's for match score (per the 6.2.4).  Do the rules support requiring the multiple Division shooters to declare a match score Division and shoot that first AT LEVEL I MATCHES?

Edited August 22, 2017 by nuidad
CLARIFICATION

[rowdyb]

i like places that let you shoot two guns.  the places i know that feel like they're successful at it make all the two gun shooters shoot in the same squad. or in a second squad after the "main" match where they're going to do most of the stage tear down.

 

i also don't know what the problem is. i can be ready to help within one shooter of finishing, just like if i was shooting only one gun. but then i'm motivated and don't want to be "that guy" when shooting two guns. people who are slow/lazy/selfish will be so whether they shoot one gun or two. and shooting pistol/pcc should be a faster turn around than say shooting two entirely different pistols/rigs.

 

i will say every place i do shoot two guns makes you pick which one you're going to shoot first. and yeah, i know of one match where they shoot the first gun for the 4 stages in a certain manner, and then go through the match for the second run (same 4 stages) shooting the same gun to work on a better position. (twin lakes gun club near mountain home in northern arkansas if you want to browse practiscore results to see how it works)

Edited August 22, 2017 by rowdyb

[motosapiens]

16 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

i also don't know what the problem is. i can be ready to help within one shooter of finishing, just like if i was shooting only one gun. but then i'm motivated and don't want to be "that guy" when shooting two guns.

 

Yep, you are motivated, and we let one guy here shoot both guns, and he worked his butt off to make sure he was doing more than his share. of course it affected his ability to prepare.

 

even if you are ready within 1 shooter of finishing, that's still 3 more shooters (on deck, shooting, and after shooting) that you *would* have been working, but instead are not.

 

I definitely thing squadding all the 2-gun shooters together in such a way that they don't hold up everyone else can be a viable alternative. I personally am looking forward to the day when there are enough pcc shooters to just run as a separate match after the main match. At that point, I will probably buy a pcc, shoot twice, and join the other rifle shooters in tearing down.

Edited August 22, 2017 by motosapiens

[Sarge]

I only Saw one local that let guys shoot two guns. Total clusterfu€|<! Took all day to shoot a classifier match.

 I also notice the op said only 11 shooters in the match?!? We have 15 per squad around here. Pretty way to do as you please with only a handful in a match.

 I also won't shoot a match that allows two guns. 

[wchangose]

Two guns in one match really slows things up.  I know people think they're quick in getting ready and then helping out, but they're not as quick as if they just had one gun.  Putting all the two gun shooters in one squad helps a little, but the match director still has to wait around for the "special kids" to finish up before he/she can tear down and get back home.  The best solution I've seen is in Memphis... anyone who wants to shoot a second gun can do so after the main match.  

[nuidad]

13 minutes ago, Sarge said:

 Pretty way to do as you please with only a handful in a match.

 I also won't shoot a match that allows two guns. 

We are trying to avoid discouraging people from shooting a match because we are allowing multiple Divisions. 

 

I also agree, we could probably just require declaration of a match score Division, and squad the multiple Division shooters separately, shooting their second Division last, using the... 6.2.4 Subject to the prior approval of the Match Director...language in the rules.  That would probably be more fair to everyone.  I'll suggest that to the MD prior to the next match.  It should make sorting the roster and scoring easier and less prone to error.

[CHA-LEE]

Full match second guns = no bueno for most matches for all of the reasons people have already described. Doing second guns on only the classifier happens fairly regularly here in Colorado without too much of a hit to the match schedule. We also force the second gun classifier attempt to be the second run on the classifier. They have to shoot the classifier first with their primary division gun first.

[nuidad]

I'd like to hear from someone who's running multiple Divisions successfully.  What are you doing to make it work?  I think I'll throw this out in another topic thread.

Edited August 24, 2017 by nuidad

[Nik Habicht]

The only times I've seen it done successfully is when the gear changes were minimal -- i.e. the competitor was shooting Open and Limited, using the same belt and pouches, and would just walk to the safe table on the bay to swap out guns after each run, and then stop at his bag to swap out mags.  The folks who did this also were able to load mags pretty quickly, or brought a bunch of loaded mags to begin with.....

 

Pistol and PCC -- could probably be done fairly easily if they both were able to utilize the same mag pouches......

 

Generally speaking -- it doesn't everyone to reset a stage; if you're on a squad that knows how to hustle and is used to working together two guys can knock out taping while scoring is going on.  Steel and movers complicate this a bit, but it's doable quickly with 3-4 people depending on complexity.  Then again, I shot with the same group always, and there were usually 10-15 of us on a squad, so that helped too....

[Hammer002]

A lot of good points, and a few people here I regard as very knowledgeable, so what's the answer to the original question?  I guess I never gave this rule much thought when I read the rules, but not sure I understand the actual difference between match score and match recognition.  Not that we are doing this locally, but curious.