Do I need an under size die

[AussieTactical]

I was looking for a 9mm die set when I came across this die on linehttp://www.egwguns.com/undersize-reloading-dies/

 

It seems to be aimed at people using cases that have been fired in oversize chambers (Glock?) so that they can size the brass down to a tighter tolerance that would then fit in most chambers.

 

I am going to be mainly shooting 9mm in a 1911, and sourcing my cases from a supplier of once fired brass. Its going to be mixed headstamp brass, fired in whatever different handgun before I get it. Is there any benefit from loading with this resizing die, or am I better off just using a standard die set and throwing away any cases that I cant size down to fit my chamber? 

 

I can see how this die could be a good thing the first time I size a case, but after that it seems like I would just be working the brass more than I need to?

[CrashDodson]

an undersized die is almost required for .40.  I dont have a whole lot of experience with 9 but when I loaded 9 briefly i ran a U die.  If you plan on reloading the same case 10+ times a U die may work the brass a bit.  I might get a handful of times on a case before its lost at a match or whatever.  The U die is added insurance that the case will pass the gauge, you also get the coke bottle effect which helps to prevent setback.   

[StuckinMS]

The 9mm is a tapered case for which there is no " push through" die.  A lot of once fired brass will come from ranges that have law enforcement participation and will most likely be shot out of glock factory chambers which are not fully supported chambers hence the term " glock fired brass".  That brass almost always has a buldge.  A lee factory carbide " u " die has given me 98% reliability out of that brass.  We pick up at a local LE range every year when they get done with qualifications and have had very few fail to barrel check using the lee dies. Hope this helps.

[Sarge]

Get one! Loading mixed brass you will find some brands have thinner case walls than others. The Udie will insure even the thinnest gets sized down nice and tight.

 I started using one when I found FC brass would not hold a Montana Gold bullet in place when sized with a Dillon die.

[4n2t0]

9mm Glock bulge is mainly a myth. I've successfully sized and reloaded poop loads of brass fired from my G17 and G34 for a multitude of other 9mm handguns without the use of any special dies. I'm not telling you not to buy one, I just don't think they're necessary. My failure rate is 0.8% loading mixed brass with my Dillon dies. Everyone's circumstance is different but that's my 2¢ worth.

Edited August 22, 2017 by 4n2t0

[AussieTactical]

Thanks all for the comments. I think I will be a thrill seeker and try a standard carbide die. If it becomes a problem, I will get an undersized die.

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, 4n2t0 said:

9mm Glock bulge is mainly a myth. I've successfully sized and reloaded poop loads of brass fired from my G17 and G34 for a multitude of other 9mm handguns without the use of any special dies. I'm not telling you not to buy one, I just don't think they're necessary. My failure rate is 0.8% loading mixed brass with my Dillon dies. Everyone's circumstance is different but that's my 2¢ worth.

I do agree Glock bulge in 9mm is a non issue. It's primarily a .40 thing.

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, StuckinMS said:

The 9mm is a tapered case for which there is no " push through" die.  

Actually, there is. You can make one out of a  9 makarov FCD.

[StuckinMS]

20 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Actually, there is. You can make one out of a  9 makarov FCD.

How?  And who makes the donor part?  

[Sarge]

21 minutes ago, StuckinMS said:

How?  And who makes the donor part?  

I think you just screw the guts out of it and put it on a single stage and push it through. There are more than a few threads on it around here somewhere.

 

[StuckinMS]

2 minutes ago, Sarge said:

I think you just screw the guts out of it and put it on a single stage and push it through. There are more than a few threads on it around here somewhere.

 

So it works like a bulge buster?  I have taken my lee crimp die for .45 acp apart before and used it in a single stage for the same reason.  I will search the 9mm maker of on here. Thanks

[Sarge]

Just now, StuckinMS said:

So it works like a bulge buster?  I have taken my lee crimp die for .45 acp apart before and used it in a single stage for the same reason.  I will search the 9mm maker of on here. Thanks

Here is one of several mentions:

 

 

[StuckinMS]

Cool! Thanks, I learn something new everyday.  Maybe one day I will be able to remember it all.  I read the thread and will be sure to pass that info along.  I had a friend that was having so much trouble reloading 9mm because of bulge brass that he sold his 9mm guns, dies, brass, out of frustration a few years ago.  I have great results using the lee die set. Thanks Sarge

[TANFARM]

I've loaded a large number of 9 mm on my 650.....installed an EGW Udie..deprimer .....money well spent!!!

Cannot praise this product enough........case gauge rejects absolute minimum.

I don't have a dog in this Glock Bulge debate.....but I know a lot of 9 mm brass gets deformed in one process or another and this die helps immensely......adjustmin until it just kisses the shell plate and load away.........just my experiences.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I've loaded over 25,000 rounds of 9mm minor and major, and never have used

an undersized die ....

 

And, I load Anything - range brass.

 

Didn't have ANY problem feeding until around round number 10,000.

 

Caught it with The Plunk Test.

 

I get very few rounds that don't Plunk or feed thru my BHP and TruBor.

 

I've also heard (never tried one) that Undersized Dies are tough on the

arm when reloading, and wear out the brass a little faster ...   ???   Not sure,

just reporting what I've heard.

 

I don't believe its necessary - to answer your question, directly.     

[Bkreutz]

I started using a U die a couple of years ago because of the failure rate on my "Supermatch" hundo gauge. (I know they are very tight and 99% of the "failures" pass a plunk test) but I was tired of checking 20 - 30% of the loaded rounds. After the U die install, I get 1 or 2 per hundred that sit tall in the gauge (and they pass a plunk, maybe 1 out of a thousand don't). I don't know about shortening the brass life. I shoot 9 major and don't pick up my brass at a match. I haven't noticed any difference in effort on the handle, but then I lube my brass. Don't really think it's necessary, but it works for me.

[Want2BS8ed]

What are opinions and experience in using a Lee Factory Crimp die with its carbide sizing ring vs a udie? I've never experienced a problem that required resizing, but then again most of my 9mm is shot THROUGH a Glock which tends to have a generous chamber.

M


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[Sarge]

2 hours ago, Want2BS8ed said:

What are opinions and experience in using a Lee Factory Crimp die with its carbide sizing ring vs a udie? I've never experienced a problem that required resizing, but then again most of my 9mm is shot THROUGH a Glock which tends to have a generous chamber.

M


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conventional wisdom is you don't need both. In fact they can counteract each other if the FCD gets adjusted too tight. from what I see many, if not most, who use both keep the FCD adjusted way out so it is just crimping, i.e. removing the bell. The fine threads if the FCD make it a great die if used either way. But I rely on the Udie to do my sizing. 

[TONY BARONE]

U-Dies do very well to eliminate bullet set back. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

1 hour ago, TONY BARONE said:

U-Dies do very well to eliminate bullet set back. 

 

Which is Very Important if loading .40 Major  ....     

[mikeinctown]

Aussie, just so you are clear, the Undersize die is only undersized by .001. Unless you are having problems with a normal die, I'd not give it a second thought. Lee dies already size pretty far down the case as their radius isn't as large as a Dillon die. Best to load some and see how they work in your guns and then adjust as necessary as there is no reason to spend money on dies unless needed.

[Sarge]

18 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

Which is Very Important if loading .40 Major  ....     

Or 9MAJOR, or anything actually. A 9 minor with a lot of setback will have as much or more pressure than a 9MAJOR round.

[Hi-Power Jack]

2 hours ago, Sarge said:

Or 9MAJOR 

 

Most 9 mm Major rounds are so full of powder, you're more likely to get the 

bullets creeping longer than shorter     

[Want2BS8ed]

conventional wisdom is you don't need both. In fact they can counteract each other if the FCD gets adjusted too tight. from what I see many, if not most, who use both keep the FCD adjusted way out so it is just crimping, i.e. removing the bell. The fine threads if the FCD make it a great die if used either way. But I rely on the Udie to do my sizing. 

Thanks Sarge. Apologize, didn't mean to imply both were necessary. Question was really more geared towards the FCD being a substitute for a u-die, assuming you got the benefit of a factory crimp while also (re)sizing a little further down the case.

Again, I've never run into a need before, but I'm not running any match chambers in 9mm either. FWIW, I am using a Redding resizing die which doesn't have quite the flair of the Dillon as mentioned earlier.

M


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[Bkreutz]

1 hour ago, Want2BS8ed said:

Thanks Sarge. Apologize, didn't mean to imply both were necessary. Question was really more geared towards the FCD being a substitute for a u-die, assuming you got the benefit of a factory crimp while also (re)sizing a little further down the case.

Again, I've never run into a need before, but I'm not running any match chambers in 9mm either. FWIW, I am using a Redding resizing die which doesn't have quite the flair of the Dillon as mentioned earlier.

M


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Starting at stage 1, the sizing die uniforms the case to the desired size and deprimes the case (with either the stock die or the u-die), stage 2 is the primer insertion,  powder drop, and the case flare, stage 3 is either the powder check die or bullet feeder depending on setup, stage 4 is the bullet seat, and stage 5 is the crimp die (whatever brand you choose) that takes the flare out that was put in on stage 2. So, using a FCD as a substitute for the U-die isn't possible since the U-die goes inside the case (not possible with the bullet sitting on top of the case). I use both and the only real option to the above configuration is replacing the bullet seater and crimp die with a combination die so the powder checker and bullet feeder can be used at the same time.