Should I try a 929 (again)?

[Makicjf]

I love my 627.  Period.  It is a rock solid, utterly reliable 8 round powerhouse;  with specials loaded to 38/44 levels or full throttle magnums I do not hesitate to take it anywhere, or rely on it for any purpose a revolver is suited too.  It has dropped hogs, killed water moccasins, copperheads and one errant rattlesnake that found its way inside my yard.  Lord knows how many chicken killing opossum and raccoons are notched on its grip.  It has dropped, DRT adrenalized animals up to 600 lbs and humanely euthanized larger. A 160 wide flat nose at 1325 fps is a killing machine.  I am not thrilled with the accuracy I'm getting with 38 short colt for uspsa.  It is ok, about 3 1/2 inches offhand at 25 yards.  However, I find myself hitting far to many almost A C's past fifteen yards.  The round nose bullets make a tiny hole and I'm calling my shots from my sight picture.  That  does not always agree with the paper...

     38 special cases, loaded to 875 feet easily shoot half the group size with the same load;  they also have much less perceived recoil, to my hands.  Perhaps its the much lower pressure?  Regardless, I ran a reload test this weekend, 10 runs. I do not have a shot timer, so my wife used a stopwatch.  From her mark, I'd empty, load and close the cylinder. No firing as she does not enjoy the noise.  Average time, hand timed for the  above with the SC was 1.38.  average time for the special was 1.70.  Plus I bobbled a special reload and threw out the +2 second attempt. No bobbles with the SC. 

that's almost a full second slower over a 32 round course. 

  My last 929, after polishing the cylinder, adding the apex extended pin would not get sticky with the Bayou 160s, but would simply lock up at random with any pf that would stay above 125.  I had to withdraw from the revolver nats because I was not certain I could pass chrono; I was certain it would simply tie up during a course of fire.  I sold it, with full disclosure and the buyer seemed confident he could get it to work.  He did, but the ball detent had not been installed.  This I did not notice.  The first one was better, but when the well and septic both crashed, 1 day apart, we parted ways as I needed cash, fast.  Both 929's were exceptionally accurate and my shot calls via the front sight were never wrong

   I'd love to get one for next year, but I'm really leery of the lack of QC.  A $1000 dollar 175 year old technology should be fairly simple for one of the Americas oldest gun makers to produce: fact is , they are struggling to make a decent revolver.   How do I keep from getting another albatross, or should I just stick with the 627?

Jason

Edited August 14, 2017 by Makicjf

[Toolguy]

One of our local guys is having good success with a 627 rechambered to 38Super. He is getting good accuracy at 50 yd. and low recoil. Maybe that would work for you. I don't know all the details, but I will try to find out if you want to know more.

[jsg]

What are your 38 SC loads? I do not know how mine would group at 25 yards but I can tell you I have all 8 touching at 15 yards off a bag when testing on my chrono (chrono at 5 paces). They seem to do well enough at 25 - 50 yards since I generally can drop all A's if I want to go slower.

I get the same accuracy when shooting 38 SP.

 

I have no idea if the QC has risen for the 929 or not.

[Toolguy]

My 38 Short Colt loads are 3.5 gr. of WW231 under a 160gr. Bayou Bullet. That is not the same as the 38 Super load though. What power factor are you wanting?

[Makicjf]

I use a Lee 150 1R 6 cavity mold, water dropped , 3 coats of bayou Bullets Red Copper and sized to .357.  Loaded out long to 1.170 and roll crimped into the lube groove, 3.8 of Bullseye  gets me a touch over 900 fps.  Less than that and ES is big ad drops below 125 pf. I load long  to shorten the jump to the throats, and the roll crimp can't hang on anything when the clip is thrown. I'm comfortable with a 130 or greater PF.  I've never bench shot the load,  only off hand as practical accuracy  at speed is what I need.  I will bench shoot it tonight and see what it can actually do.  It is very possible that the SC loads are not the issue, but "flash" sight picture being a bit less precise from the 4.2 inch  barrel than the almost 7 inch( with cap) barrel of the 929.  That had not occurred to me.   I have also been pushing speed a bit more.  If the SC loads can do 2 inches or less at 25 yards,  a 5 inch 627 may be my next revolver. 

Honestly I'd rather have a 5 inch practical 627 than a "for games only" finicky 929.

   If it groups well, the issue(s) are  the sight radius difference; my pushing for more speed; or a combo of both.

I'll bench shoot tonight.

Thank You!

Jason

[AzShooter]

I never found my 929 to be picky except for using Starline brass.  When I switched to Winchester brass all my sticky problems went away.  With my load of 3.2 grains of N320 and a 147 grain bullet ( from a variety of manufacturers it would group one hole at 25 yards with all rounds touching.   I do have to admit that my 627s were easier to get tuned for the bullets used.   They seemed to work well with any brass used.  The groups were never as tight as with the 929.

[underlug]

3 hours ago, Makicjf said:

I love my 627.  Period.  It is a rock solid, utterly reliable 8 round powerhouse;  with specials loaded to 38/44 levels or full throttle magnums I do not hesitate to take it anywhere, or rely on it for any purpose a revolver is suited too.  It has dropped hogs, killed water moccasins, copperheads and one errant rattlesnake that found its way inside my yard.  Lord knows how many chicken killing opossum and raccoons are notched on its grip.  It has dropped, DRT adrenalized animals up to 600 lbs and humanely euthanized larger. A 160 wide flat nose at 1325 fps is a killing machine.  I am not thrilled with the accuracy I'm getting with 38 short colt for uspsa.  It is ok, about 3 1/2 inches offhand at 25 yards.  However, I find myself hitting far to many almost A C's past fifteen yards.  The round nose bullets make a tiny hole and I'm calling my shots from my sight picture.  That  do not always agree with the paper.

     38 special cases, loaded to 875 feet easily shoot half the group size with the same load;  they also have much less perceived recoil, to my hands.  Perhaps its the much lower pressure?  Regardless, I ran a reload test this weekend, 10 runs. I do not have a shot timer, so my wife used a stopwatch.  From her mark, I'd empty, load and close the cylinder. No firing as she does not enjoy the noise.  Average time, hand timed for the  above with the SC was 1.38.  average time for the special was 1.70.  Plus I bobbled a special reload and threw out the +2 second attempt. No bobbles with the SC. 

that's almost a full second slower over a 32 round course. 

  My last 929, after polishing the cylinder, adding the apex extended pin would not get sticky with the Bayou 160s, but would simply lock up at random with any pf that would stay above 125.  I had to withdraw from the revolver nats because I was not certain I could pass chrono; I was certain it would simply tie up during a course of fire.  I sold it, with full disclosure and the buyer seemed confident he could get it to work.  He did, but the ball detent had not been installed.  This I did not notice.  The first one was better, but when the well and septic both crashed, 1 day apart, we parted ways as I needed cash, fast.  Both 929's were exceptionally accurate and my shot calls via the front sight were never wrong

   I'd love to get one for next year, but I'm really leery of the lack of QC.  A $1000 dollar 175 year old technology should be fairly simple for one of the Americas oldest gun makers to produce: fact is , they are struggling to make a decent revolver.   How do I keep from getting another albatross, or should I just stick with the 627?

Jason

Try long colt

[Alaskan454]

What moonclips were you using?  The really thin ones can back out when fired due to the tapered case.  I have some of the eBay clips that came with my gun and they do this with my USPSA loads at 131 PF but not the steel loads at 105 PF.  Never had that problem with .040 TK or .042 HearthCo.

[Bill Sahlberg]

Cleanest load and most accurate I have been shooting this load for 10 years.

Using 38 Colt Short with 130 gr Montana Gold 356 RN (I know, I know its for 38 Super)

Fed Sm Primer, Starline Brass, 4.6 gr Universal Clays at 1.100" OAL

I have 100K+ down the pipe and my 627 is still 100% reliable and accurate!

I use to shoot PPC with the local PD and this is almost as accurate at

50 yds as my  lead 148 gr HBWC in 38 Special with 2.8 gr of 231

 

[Makicjf]

I was using the revolver supply Moon clips.  Some were thicker and stainless, but the first run I bought (50) were the thinner ones.  Another interesting thought  as to why the 929 was a pain in my butt...  I've got at least 150 ( I can fill one of the Revolver Supply clip holders to the top) of the .025 for the 627.  They are awesome with RP or Federal and serviceable for the Starline 38 SC.  Starline 38 Special brass has to much wiggle.

   I thought about Long colt, but using the case length and measuring from the crimp groove to the nose I would end up with an OAL of about 1.320.  That seems pretty close to the 1.445 I was getting with the Special loads.  If I could find 8 to try before I bought five hundred, and run a reload test, they may be the droids I'm looking for... I guess  could actually trim some 38 cases down to 1.03 and dumby some rounds and try that. 

Thanks Ya'll

jason

Edited August 14, 2017 by Makicjf

[Batmo]

My 929 has been a joy to shoot over the past year with a variety of powders, bullet shapes, sizes and weights in both 9mm and 38 short colt.  My current 9mm load for USPSA is a .358  147 grain Round Nose Blue Bullet (excellent price and very accurate) 3.8 grains of Powder Pistol (because I have a lot of it) Winchester small pistol primers, OAL 1.145, Starline Brass an Revolver Supply .040 extreme moon clips with a power factor of 132.  This combination loads very fast, extracts easily and will shoot  0.875 inch 8 shot groups at 15 yard consistently...if I do my job. 

"Should I try a 929 (again)?".....Heck Yes !!!!

We only have so many weekends left !

Edited August 15, 2017 by Batmo

[jdub05]

My son switched from a 627 to a 929 and never looked back. The gun has been flawless with zero issues. TK Custom did the work on the gun and its setting off Winchester and Federal primers reliably. I'm using federal brass only, 3.2 grains of 320 with 160 gr .356 coated round nose. Also, we use TK .40 stainless moonclips for smooth reloads. 

Edited August 17, 2017 by jdub05

[Makicjf]

jdub05,

That's good to know.  The buyer of my second 929 texted me and reported that once S&W installed the ball detent that 929 has run perfectly as well.  Given all the positive feedback, and knowing what needs to be done ( polish chambers, extended firing pin, good stout moonclips)  I'll pick up another 929 early next year.  I simply can't make my 627 as fast nor as accurate as a functional 929.

Thanks Ya'll

Jaosn

Edited August 17, 2017 by Makicjf

[alecmc]

5 minutes ago, Makicjf said:

I simply can't make my 627 as fast nor as accurate as a functional 929.

 

 

Why not?

[Makicjf]

I've found , at speed ( or my approximation of speed?) I shoot the longer 929 better. The 929 ti cylinder seems to move quicker.  Though I could install a trigger stop and a ti cylinder in my 627, I don't want to turn an awesome perfect packin pistol into a game only gun.  A 929 can be toyed with, as it's a toy. My 627 is a useful tool that I use in a game.

JMO,

Jason