It's an amature sport so why not give awards

[aandabooks]

I've seen where a couple matches have done engraved Yeti style cups.  That's kind of cool.

[StuckinMS]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

Awesome! What are you donating to prize tables?

We build safe area tables, stage props, provide steel targets, shooting belts for junior shooters, build/rebuild berms, etc. For both local uspsa ranges and the local LE range. I dont buklc guns, own a gun store, or sell related products but if a match in my state is in need I am happy to step up. But that doesn't fulfill the op nor does it change the fact that more could and should be done to award those who seek the awards.  It is how every sport survives or dies.  I can remember when the big matches would give $1,000.00 per stage win like the 1994 pro am.  Rob Leatham really racked up there with 6 of 8 stage wins, and other matches gave away various guns and even had side matches that top prize was a firearm.  Those events are what kicked off the amazing growth to our awesome sport.  And even if there are now more events, it doesn't mean that awards can't be of the desired variety.  

[StuckinMS]

1 hour ago, aandabooks said:

I've seen where a couple matches have done engraved Yeti style cups.  That's kind of cool.

The Arkansas Sectional put on by David Hyden and crew does.  They gave out voodoo tactical back packs, and all kinds of other goodies as registration gifts to all shooters.  They also did the state shaped plaques for the usual achievements.  It is by far the best sectional I have been able to attend.

Edited August 17, 2017 by StuckinMS
Misspelled name

[motosapiens]

30 minutes ago, StuckinMS said:

But that doesn't fulfill the op nor does it change the fact that more could and should be done to award those who seek the awards.  It is how every sport survives or dies.  I can remember when the big matches would give $1,000.00 per stage win like the 1994 pro am.  Rob Leatham really racked up there with 6 of 8 stage wins, and other matches gave away various guns and even had side matches that top prize was a firearm.  Those events are what kicked off the amazing growth to our awesome sport.  And even if there are now more events, it doesn't mean that awards can't be of the desired variety.  

 

Okay, sarcasm off..... I'm all for rob leatham being able to make a good living, but i'm not sure how that benefits everyone else. Just from what I've read, it seems to me that the shooters most concerned with prizes and the shooters most likely to win are disjoint sets.

 

Most of the top guys seemed to be concerned with quality of stages, level of competitiveness, and quality of officiating (competitive equity). I'm not a top guy, but those are definitely my most important concerns, along with level of fun. Of course many people are like you, and more concerned with prizes and trinkets. That's got to make it challenging for match promoters trying to please the widest variety of people.

[BRJACKET]

I certainly am in no danger of winning anything so my opinion doesn't mean much. I am in the process of competing against myself to get better.

[MikeBurgess]

 
Okay, sarcasm off..... I'm all for rob leatham being able to make a good living, but i'm not sure how that benefits everyone else. Just from what I've read, it seems to me that the shooters most concerned with prizes and the shooters most likely to win are disjoint sets.
 
Most of the top guys seemed to be concerned with quality of stages, level of competitiveness, and quality of officiating (competitive equity). I'm not a top guy, but those are definitely my most important concerns, along with level of fun. Of course many people are like you, and more concerned with prizes and trinkets. That's got to make it challenging for match promoters trying to please the widest variety of people.

This

For me as a shooter matches are about stages and how the match is run. If the organizer gets this part right, I'd be happy with no prize or awards at all, anything better than that is just gravy. If they get that wrong, a great prize table would only take some of the sting away.

As a MD I worry about stages and staffing, probably too much of the first and not enough of the second but I'm working in it. Awards and prizes are on the list but I would sacrifice them for better stages or staff in a heart beat.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[CHA-LEE]

I wanted to add some facts to the discussion. I have run a Leve 2 match for the past 6 years which usually pulled in 150 - 170 in attendance. I would use the normal "Cheap" wooden plaques and not so cheap acrylic glass looking trophies for the HOA in the divisions that had solid attendance. I would do Overall per division, usually for the top 5, Division Classification, and Category awards. All of these in varying 1 - 3 as needed based on the participation. The expense for these "Cheap" trophies averaged about $900 each year, which is a significant expense.

 

My match had an awarding depth well beyond most of the other major matches I have attended, but I would still have competitors whining about not getting an award. People don't understand that there needs to be a certain level of participation to justify an award. For example, if there are three Seniors in a division I would only give a High Senior award. But the second place Senior would belly ache about not getting an award. 

 

I guess this is a long post to say that no matter how awards are distributed, there will always be people that bitch about it. As an MD all you can do is cater to the masses and not let the whiners ruin your efforts.

[CHA-LEE]

As a competitor, I really don't care about awards at Majors. I am not a trophy collector and never have been. I would much rather a match have great stages and it run smoothly verses a crappy match with special awards. I also welcome lower entry fee's or at least an entry fee that reflects the match product you are buying. 

 

Over the years I have seen way too many major matches with excessively high entry fee's that come no were close to justifying the match product they are providing. There are way too many major matches with $175 - $225 entry fee's. If I am paying close to $200 for a match I am expecting a superior match product. There should be match meals included, match shirts included, awesome stages, solid prize table, appropriate awards issued, and a well organized and run event. Unfortunately that seems to be the exception these days.

 

If a major match has close to a $200 entry fee and the above items are not included, then one of two things are happening. First, some greedy SOB is getting PAID a crap ton of money to run the match. Second, the match staff is wasting a crap ton of money on things that are really not needed.

 

My 150 - 170 shooter Level 2 match has a $100 entry fee. That minimal entry fee can Feed Everyone, Give match shirts to everyone, Has well above average awards recognition, Provide significant $$$ prizes, Produce great stages, Run like a well oiled machine AND still produce a profit for the hosting USPSA club.

 

If I can do that with a $100 entry fee and 150 - 170 shooters then people hosting $200 entry fee and 300 - 400 shooter matches have ZERO excuse in being able to do it as well. 

[BritinUSA]

This is another reason why I am a fan of using commemorative coins/medals for matches. USPSA could bulk order them, and the match name could be engraved if needed. Now if a competitor did not receive one due to reduced participation in that division/class (or if they just wanted a memento) then they could order one for themselves online.

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, BritinUSA said:

This is another reason why I am a fan of using commemorative coins/medals for matches. USPSA could bulk order them, and the match name could be engraved if needed. Now if a competitor did not receive one due to reduced participation in that division/class (or if they just wanted a memento) then they could order one for themselves online.

 

or they could have mine. I have too much junk already, and I'm plan on competing for many more years.

[DukeEB]

Personally, I like to collect match shirts for the matches I go to.  I don't have a desire for participation awards, I'd just stick them in a box somewhere and forget about them. 

[OPENB]

I like plaques. I hang all of mine in my "hallway of pride," until my wife needed space for her half marathon finishes. I stopped buy match shirts a long time ago, until the Techwear's came out. I had to have a couple of those. But $20 for a tshirt, pass. Nice thought, but I had too many. The plaques I do have, I'm very proud of. And I've gotten some great stuff from random draw prize tables. It's all good, I come for the shooting first. The prize table is 2nd.

[DukeEB]

This is only my 3rd year of competition, so I have lots of room for shirts haha

[a matt]

5 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

As a competitor, I really don't care about awards at Majors. I am not a trophy collector and never have been. I would much rather a match have great stages and it run smoothly verses a crappy match with special awards. I also welcome lower entry fee's or at least an entry fee that reflects the match product you are buying. 

 

Over the years I have seen way too many major matches with excessively high entry fee's that come no were close to justifying the match product they are providing. There are way too many major matches with $175 - $225 entry fee's. If I am paying close to $200 for a match I am expecting a superior match product. There should be match meals included, match shirts included, awesome stages, solid prize table, appropriate awards issued, and a well organized and run event. Unfortunately that seems to be the exception these days.

 

If a major match has close to a $200 entry fee and the above items are not included, then one of two things are happening. First, some greedy SOB is getting PAID a crap ton of money to run the match. Second, the match staff is wasting a crap ton of money on things that are really not needed.

 

My 150 - 170 shooter Level 2 match has a $100 entry fee. That minimal entry fee can Feed Everyone, Give match shirts to everyone, Has well above average awards recognition, Provide significant $$$ prizes, Produce great stages, Run like a well oiled machine AND still produce a profit for the hosting USPSA club.

 

If I can do that with a $100 entry fee and 150 - 170 shooters then people hosting $200 entry fee and 300 - 400 shooter matches have ZERO excuse in being able to do it as well. 

Very well stated !  We paid $200.00 for 12 stages.  $275 for 20 stage Nationals.   I still think why not pay 3 places. If you want to do 3 per class fine and if not fine.  For that $200.00 we all expected more stages, we are shooters i think we all would like more stages.  Just my thinking keep the awards add stages

Edited August 17, 2017 by a matt
Added comment

[rowdyb]

I think we've gotten off track from what is a cool trophy to how trophies are distributed. So when all of us who don't get trophies walk by the award table, what kind of trophy would make you go, "wow, neato!"

 

moto, i've gotten some pretty neat trophies from bmx, downhill and enduro racing. and the shop i was a mech at donated quite a bit to the local xc series.

[OPENB]

The Rockcastle ProAm 3Gun traditionally gives a lamp with a commemorative base. Pretty neat. 

[motosapiens]

On 8/17/2017 at 8:08 PM, rowdyb said:

moto, i've gotten some pretty neat trophies from bmx, downhill and enduro racing. and the shop i was a mech at donated quite a bit to the local xc series.

 

 

I have one from the Virginia City GP that's made out of a (new) rear sprocket from some fancy aftermarket sprocket mfr in the area. I've been tempted to see if it will fit a ktm and just put it on a bike.

[RJH]

My favorite trophy is from a local match. If you win your division/class, assuming enough shooters in that division/class, you get a coupon for half off another match in the future.  I have some plaques and such but I don't display them, I do however wear my trophy buckles from archery.  So give coupons for next years match, it is an excellent trophy that is actually worth something

[iamspartacus]

I like the coin idea.

[Blueridge]

On 8/22/2017 at 8:23 PM, RJH said:

My favorite trophy is from a local match. If you win your division/class, assuming enough shooters in that division/class, you get a coupon for half off another match in the future.  I have some plaques and such but I don't display them, I do however wear my trophy buckles from archery.  So give coupons for next years match, it is an excellent trophy that is actually worth something

A belt buckle would be interesting, and a "challenge" coin is  a good idea also IMO. 

[Joe4d]

Area and Nationals.. Do a big cup or plaque of some kind.. Class winners get it... and get their name inscribed... but they have to give it back at next years match to give to the next years winner.

 

[kneelingatlas]

1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

Area and Nationals.. Do a big cup or plaque of some kind.. Class winners get it... and get their name inscribed... but they have to give it back at next years match to give to the next years winner.

 

 

That'd be a logistical nightmare

[Jim Watson]

Why?  Other sports have traveling trophies.  I have a couple of Strickland Team pins from my ATA days, but I didn't get to keep the trophy permanently.

When I was shooting ATA trap, the larger shoots gave out pewter or silver plate items.  Plaques and "man on a stick" trophies would hurt attendance for the next time.

 

I donated a lot of ATA, PPC, IPSC, and IDPA trophies back to the clubs.  They could have the date and event plate replaced at small cost and award them for 2nd and 3rd place at medium level shoots.

 

My keeper trophies, whether displayed or shelved, were wiped out in the fire of 2010.  I picked up a few, late 2010 til 2013, that I will keep, but my winning days are likely over. 

 

 

[mpolans]

On 8/12/2017 at 11:36 PM, a matt said:

   The USPSA is really an amature sport we can't say we shoot for the money, we can't w e do it for the girls and fame. So why do we travel, dry fire & practice and want to get better?  Egos ? Or is it just a drive we have?  

   Many shooters have said they  have a box of old plaques that they will never display so why not offer something the shooters would be proud to display above the fire place? Nothing like a $500.00 crystal egg or such. Maybe just something more than these plaques every match has deemed standard issue awards for the uspsa shooters at a level II and up event?  I talking about something actually worthy of being on display. It can't be the money because with the price of the matches these days and for profit matches it can't be the money, the greed maybe but we pay enough to warrant a better return for shooting great than $5 plaque.   No partisapation awards. Just  the top 3 in class and forget the rest, no matter the number of shooters in each class. 

Haha, if you think that's bad, you should try motorcycle racing.  Between having to have a truck and/or trailer, tires, crash spares, travel and lodging expenses, etc, costs *dwarf* USPSA, then there's always the danger of crashing, and the most you're likely to win at the amateur level is a trophy and *maybe* some contingency money if you're using the right tires or bike...and I'm not sure if there's even much of that any more.

[ChuckS]

On 10/13/2017 at 6:26 AM, kneelingatlas said:

 

That'd be a logistical nightmare

SWPL has done it for a long time for division winners. Of course, in the beginning there was only one division...

 

http://www.gopherflats.net/club-matches/swpl-practical-shooting/swpl-past-champions/

 

ETA: Since Area and Nationals move around, it may be more of an issue getting the trophies back

 

Edited October 15, 2017 by ChuckS