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Rifle patterns


Hammer002

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Did anyone else feel the need to change Steel Challenge patterns when started shooting rifle?  I started with a pistol, SS.  For an example, I came to prefer shooting Accelerator 4,3,1,2,stop.  However, when I started shooting RFRO and now PCC, I don't like bringing the rifle across my chin from the center low ready on Accelerator after setting POA on the stop plate and leaving my eyes/head indexed on plate 4.  I find it far better to index on plate 1, allowing my eyes/head to remain there ready for the rifle to come up from low ready.  So I had to change the pattern to 1,2,4,3,stop.  Shot a 9.99 on it last sunday, but still looking to improve.  Wondering if there are others are better shot one way with a rifle and if so, are you guys changing to that pattern with the pistol too?  I kinda found the same with Roundabout and still feel lost on pendulum for top speeds.

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Did anyone else feel the need to change Steel Challenge patterns when started shooting rifle?  I started with a pistol, SS.  For an example, I came to prefer shooting Accelerator 4,3,1,2,stop.  However, when I started shooting RFRO and now PCC, I don't like bringing the rifle across my chin from the center low ready on Accelerator after setting POA on the stop plate and leaving my eyes/head indexed on plate 4.  I find it far better to index on plate 1, allowing my eyes/head to remain there ready for the rifle to come up from low ready.  So I had to change the pattern to 1,2,4,3,stop.  Shot a 9.99 on it last sunday, but still looking to improve.  Wondering if there are others are better shot one way with a rifle and if so, are you guys changing to that pattern with the pistol too?  I kinda found the same with Roundabout and still feel lost on pendulum for top speeds.

I shoot it 1,2,4,3 stop with RFRO and PCC. My index is plate 3 with feet angled outside 1 and 4 so I can swing smoothly all the way to 4. I also squat a bit to give me more range of motion with the rifle.


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I shoot 1,2,4,3,S with everything now on Accelerator. I used to shoot 4,3,1,2,S but Max proved to me that the other way is faster by, in my case, about .3-.4s in a CF draw. I do that with the rifles due to the way the stage is setup because I prefer to shoot the big transitions from L to R. Since I start with my eyes on the target and with the low ready firearm I don't like looking across the lowered rifle at a target on the right as the first one. By starting with the left most target when the start requires a large transition from low ready I start by aiming at the target, then drop the rifle to point at the cone while keeping my eyes on the initial target.  That way I shoot the big transition in Accelerator from left to right, my best direction. In that direction my first shot splits average at .7s. Just about the only stages I don't shoot L to R, is the center box in Showdown and Speed Option. I sometimes shoot S&H 1,2,3,4,S and sometimes 4,3,1,2,S, depending on the weapon. Still while my best low ready run is 1.75s I am not consistent enough yet to get into the 7s stage times. Why I am still M in both RFRO and PCCO.

I angle my feet so both point outside the ends of the target line with my L slightly forward, hunkering down slightly with weight forward. Then I snap a few practice moves up the first target and depending on where my natural POA is I may shift my feet slightly.

As for Pendulum that was one of my toughest so I set it up in my backyard at the farm and shot it off and on for about 6 months, mainly rimfire and PCC.

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You guys are making me feel like I am on the right track.  I do most of the things listed here as well with the bending of knees, foot placements, and leaving my head and eyes aimed at the first plate while lowering the gun.  I mimic photoracer in nearly everything mentioned.  Smoke n hope has always been a strength for me, have shot it 1,2,4,3,stop, same as the record holder.  Shot a 1.67 last Sunday and have been in the 7s a couple times.  Had issues with accelerator as well and had to dry fire practice it a ton along with giving into the topic I asked about, changing the pattern.  Outer limits and pendulum are keeping me in master for RFRO and PCC for sure. Hoping to make improvements there.  Outlet limits has to get the footwork down and the aim on 4 quicker after entering the box.  Pendulum is still an issue, and the one I wonder about changing.  2, 1,4,3, stop, or something like that.  Transitioning down both times with a 1,2,4,3, stop is giving me fits getting the dot to come down into 2 and 3 quickly.  Feel like I take forever to get it stopped to take the shot.  

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On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 6:30 PM, tyman1876 said:

For me personally, on outer limits, it's faster to get on the back rectangle when enter the box than it is the plate. I try to time it so my sight picture is up and ready as soon as my feet are planted.

 

This is my standard for Outer Limits, as much of Trent's advice is since I think he holds a couple records for steel:

 

 

For me, I agree with Trent on the rectangle and stop plate visually crossing issue.  More importantly for me, transitioning to the right from the left only to go back left again for the stop plate is a bit too spicy for me, especially having to nail the transition movement stop perfect going to the right plate from the left as not to over travel.  This one I have the method, just need some more practice on the execution to get where I need to be as far as time.  I think I am still making the mistake he warns of = crashing the box.  He makes it look easy to get on that small plate fast.

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This is my standard for Outer Limits, as much of Trent's advice is since I think he holds a couple records for steel:
 
 
For me, I agree with Trent on the rectangle and stop plate visually crossing issue.  More importantly for me, transitioning to the right from the left only to go back left again for the stop plate is a bit too spicy for me, especially having to nail the transition movement stop perfect going to the right plate from the left as not to over travel.  This one I have the method, just need some more practice on the execution to get where I need to be as far as time.  I think I am still making the mistake he warns of = crashing the box.  He makes it look easy to get on that small plate fast.


You're not kidding he does make it look easy. That's a great video
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The more I shoot, I realize that discussions on shooting order are a little futile.  My order has changed every which way over the years as my abilities have changed.  My orders are different now vs a year ago, and I think they are better now for my current capability and styke, but my old order was similarly correct for me at that time.   Just play with it, and if it makes reasonable sense to you and works, then that's your order.  

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On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 6:25 PM, jkrispies said:

The more I shoot, I realize that discussions on shooting order are a little futile.  My order has changed every which way over the years as my abilities have changed.  My orders are different now vs a year ago, and I think they are better now for my current capability and styke, but my old order was similarly correct for me at that time.   Just play with it, and if it makes reasonable sense to you and works, then that's your order.  

 

Thanks jkrispies.  I feel the same way for the most part.  I am just struggling to shave the times off a few stages and make GM with the rifles.  I am happy with my Accelerator change, and working on Outer Limits execution, but Pendulum is the current nemesis.  Straight left to right isn't giving me the times I want, but seems to be the way most pros do it.  I have heard many of them say things like it is the stage to just survive, or not try to be a hero with.  Plate 3 seems to be my slow spot in either 1,2,3,4,Stop or 1,2,4,3,Stop.  Settling the dot on that plate for some reason feel like an eternity and for some reason I don't experience the same issue with a pistol. Although I am not shooting a pistol anywhere near as fast.  I dunno.  Work in progress.  Thanks for the input. 

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5 hours ago, Hammer002 said:

 

Thanks jkrispies.  I feel the same way for the most part.  I am just struggling to shave the times off a few stages and make GM with the rifles.  I am happy with my Accelerator change, and working on Outer Limits execution, but Pendulum is the current nemesis.  Straight left to right isn't giving me the times I want, but seems to be the way most pros do it.  I have heard many of them say things like it is the stage to just survive, or not try to be a hero with.  Plate 3 seems to be my slow spot in either 1,2,3,4,Stop or 1,2,4,3,Stop.  Settling the dot on that plate for some reason feel like an eternity and for some reason I don't experience the same issue with a pistol. Although I am not shooting a pistol anywhere near as fast.  I dunno.  Work in progress.  Thanks for the input. 

If you look at it mathematically, a mirrored stage like pendulum with a center stop plate isn't going to give you any advantage by shooting it in a particular order as long as you don't come up some bizarre sequence.  In other words, you can shoot it end to end, center out, out to center, etc, and the muzzle of your gun is going to travel the same distance either way.  So... your order is really just a psychological consideration.  I used to shoot it in an order that was fast if I nailed it but I was getting penalties because I was shooting the stop before I realized I'd missed 2.  I  now pick my orders on stages like this based on what is safest in providing me the opportunity for a pickup shot if needed.  Behond that, it's a fancy plate rack. Look at it that way, remove the intimidation factor, and just practice it until it feels like another stage. 

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If you look at it mathematically, a mirrored stage like pendulum with a center stop plate isn't going to give you any advantage by shooting it in a particular order as long as you don't come up some bizarre sequence.  In other words, you can shoot it end to end, center out, out to center, etc, and the muzzle of your gun is going to travel the same distance either way.  So... your order is really just a psychological consideration.  I used to shoot it in an order that was fast if I nailed it but I was getting penalties because I was shooting the stop before I realized I'd missed 2.  I  now pick my orders on stages like this based on what is safest in providing me the opportunity for a pickup shot if needed.  Behond that, it's a fancy plate rack. Look at it that way, remove the intimidation factor, and just practice it until it feels like another stage. 


It's funny you mentioned pendulum because I just had the same conversation last weekend at a match. Someone asked what I thought the "best" way was to shoot the stage. I said what you said, as long as you're not zig zagging or something wild like that, it's whatever mentally works best for you.
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Thanks jkrispies.  I feel the same way for the most part.  I am just struggling to shave the times off a few stages and make GM with the rifles.  I am happy with my Accelerator change, and working on Outer Limits execution, but Pendulum is the current nemesis.  Straight left to right isn't giving me the times I want, but seems to be the way most pros do it.  I have heard many of them say things like it is the stage to just survive, or not try to be a hero with.  Plate 3 seems to be my slow spot in either 1,2,3,4,Stop or 1,2,4,3,Stop.  Settling the dot on that plate for some reason feel like an eternity and for some reason I don't experience the same issue with a pistol. Although I am not shooting a pistol anywhere near as fast.  I dunno.  Work in progress.  Thanks for the input. 


Any time I start to struggle I always try and remember that it's going to be faster to take a split second longer and be sure you hit than it is to try and make up a shot. I'm usually satisfied with my times when I take that route as well.
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12 hours ago, tyman1876 said:

 


Any time I start to struggle I always try and remember that it's going to be faster to take a split second longer and be sure you hit than it is to try and make up a shot. I'm usually satisfied with my times when I take that route as well.

 

I agree.  At my last practice session with all eight stages, I shot (I think) my best total time even though I didn't have any amazing standout stages.  What I didn't have was my usual two tanked stages that cancelled out my one or two fantastic stages.  I' finally got my consistency where I want it, which pushed me over the top in the overall.  

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  • 4 weeks later...
On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 5:42 PM, Hammer002 said:

Did anyone else feel the need to change Steel Challenge patterns when started shooting rifle?  I started with a pistol, SS.  For an example, I came to prefer shooting Accelerator 4,3,1,2,stop.  However, when I started shooting RFRO and now PCC, I don't like bringing the rifle across my chin from the center low ready on Accelerator after setting POA on the stop plate and leaving my eyes/head indexed on plate 4.  I find it far better to index on plate 1, allowing my eyes/head to remain there ready for the rifle to come up from low ready.  So I had to change the pattern to 1,2,4,3,stop.  Shot a 9.99 on it last sunday, but still looking to improve.  Wondering if there are others are better shot one way with a rifle and if so, are you guys changing to that pattern with the pistol too?  I kinda found the same with Roundabout and still feel lost on pendulum for top speeds.

Max got me to switch to 1,2,4,3,S on my pistol also and I immediately gained about .3s per run. I still shoot the rifle/carbine faster in that same pattern. Its just faster to move the rifle between plates with so much better leverage than you can get on the pistol.

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Max got me to switch to 1,2,4,3,S on my pistol also and I immediately gained about .3s per run. I still shoot the rifle/carbine faster in that same pattern. Its just faster to move the rifle between plates with so much better leverage than you can get on the pistol.


I agree that's faster, I just get nervous missing plate 3 and hitting the stop plate before I notice. I'm so back and forth on that stage.
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11 minutes ago, tyman1876 said:

 

 


I agree that's faster, I just get nervous missing plate 3 and hitting the stop plate before I notice. I'm so back and forth on that stage.

 

Its not one of my best. Actually the only time I had a stage win in a bigger match it was Pendulum. And I have to admit I had it setup in my backyard range for something like 6 months. Every stage in SC has a visual trap and you have to figure out what they are and how to avoid them.

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Its not one of my best. Actually the only time I had a stage win in a bigger match it was Pendulum. And I have to admit I had it setup in my backyard range for something like 6 months. Every stage in SC has a visual trap and you have to figure out what they are and how to avoid them.


Pendulum is a good one to practice. I'm convinced that there is really no good way to shoot that stage.
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Pendulum is a good one to practice. I'm convinced that there is really no good way to shoot that stage.


The key for me on pendulum is shooting them 1, 2, 4, 5, S with short, smooth transitions where I get that quick hard look on plates two and five so I can ensure the hit after the elevation change.


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  • 3 weeks later...

I have seen Trent shoot. His foot work is similar to mine except my bad knees slow me down on Outer Limits. Max likes to do the shuffle but that only works well with the pistol. Like Trent I shoot the first 2 targets L>R but when moving to the center box with the rifle the it almost always has you pointing off to the right so I shoot the last 3 from R>L because I can just bring the gun up as I stop without having to twist more to the left. Also my starting position in the first box I put my right foot on the box frame because I want to know where it is without have to look by just feeling it with my foot when my left goes by. When I get to the center box and my foot is inside I attempt to shoot while my left foot is still in the air and I make it land very close to my right foot in case I have misjudged how far I am in the box because I don't want to have to look down at it.

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