9mm Minor

[Waldokill]

5 hours ago, BSComp said:

 

The data below goes to show why it's important to work up a load. This data is out of a Shadow 2, which has had no modifications and using a stock barrel.

 

Created: 01/07/18 03:06 PM
Description: 3.5 Titegroup 124g BBI
Notes 1: 9mm. Shadow 2.  3.5 Titegroup. 1.10 OAL. 124g BBI
Distance to Chrono (FT): 15.00
Bullet Weight (gr): 125.00
Temp: 53 °F
BP: 30.12 in Hg

 

#          FPS  FT-LBS      PF
10    1066    315.46  133.25
9    1040    300.26  130.00
8    1048    304.89  131.00
7    1066    315.46  133.25
6    1037    298.53  129.62
5    1041    300.83  130.12
4    1028    293.37  128.50
3    1048    304.89  131.00
2    1042    301.41  130.25
1    1053    307.81  131.62

 

Average: 1046.9 FPS
SD: 12.2 FPS
Min: 1028 FPS
Max: 1066 FPS
Spread: 38 FPS

Created: 01/07/18 03:08 PM
Description: 3.5 WST 135g BBI
Notes 1: 9mm Shadow 2 1.10 OAL
Distance to Chrono (FT): 15.00
Bullet Weight (gr): 135.00
Temp: 53 °F
BP: 30.12 in Hg

 

#          FPS  FT-LBS      PF
10    926      257.08  125.01
9    956      274.01  129.06
8    961      276.88  129.74
7    993      295.63  134.05
6    973      283.84  131.35
5    992      295.03  133.92
4    956      274.01  129.06
3    949      270.01  128.12
2    939      264.35  126.76
1    969      281.51  130.82

 

Average: 961.4 FPS
SD: 21.3 FPS
Min: 926 FPS
Max: 993 FPS
Spread: 67 FPS

Created: 01/07/18 03:10 PM
Description: 3.6 WST 135g BBI
Notes 1: 9mm. Shadow 2.  3.6 WST. 1.10. 135g BBI
Distance to Chrono (FT): 15.00
Bullet Weight (gr): 135.00
Temp: 54 °F
BP: 30.12 in Hg

 

#          FPS  FT-LBS      PF
10    977      286.18  131.90
9    976      285.59  131.76
8    986      291.48  133.11
7    946      268.31  127.71
6    976      285.59  131.76
5    985      290.89  132.98
4    985      290.89  132.98
3    945      267.74  127.57
2    954      272.86  128.79
1    959      275.73  129.46

 

Average: 968.9 FPS
SD: 16.3 FPS
Min: 945 FPS
Max: 986 FPS
Spread: 41 FPS

Created: 01/07/18 03:12 PM
Description: 3.7 WST 135g BBI
Notes 1: 9mm. Shadow 2.  3.7 WST. 1.10. 135g BBI
Distance to Chrono (FT): 15.00
Bullet Weight (gr): 135.00
Temp: 54 °F
BP: 30.12 in Hg

 

#          FPS  FT-LBS      PF
10    949      270.01  128.12
9    1015    308.87  137.02
8    1033    319.93  139.46
7    1029    317.45  138.91
6    973      283.84  131.35
5    1006    303.42  135.81
4    968      280.93  130.68
3    1000    299.81  135.00
2    979      287.35  132.16
1    973      283.84  131.35

 

Average: 992.5 FPS
SD: 28.2 FPS
Min: 949 FPS
Max: 1033 FPS
Spread: 84 FPS

Created: 01/07/18 03:15 PM
Description: 3.8 WST 135g BBI
Notes 1: 9mm. Shadow 2.  3.8 WST. 1.10. 135g BBI
Distance to Chrono (FT): 15.00
Bullet Weight (gr): 135.00
Temp: 54 °F
BP: 30.12 in Hg

 

#          FPS  FT-LBS      PF
10    1000    299.81  135.00
9    999      299.21  134.87
8    987      292.07  133.24
7    1013    307.66  136.76
6    1013    307.66  136.76
5    1017    310.09  137.29
4    989      293.25  133.51
3    978      286.77  132.03
2    975      285.01  131.62
1    994      296.23  134.19

 

Average: 996.5 FPS
SD: 14.7 FPS
Min: 975 FPS
Max: 1017 FPS
Spread: 42 FPS

Created: 01/07/18 03:18 PM
Description: 3.9 WST 135g BBI
Notes 1: 9mm. Shadow 2.  3.8 WST. 1.10. 135g BBI
Distance to Chrono (FT): 15.00
Bullet Weight (gr): 135.00
Temp: 54 °F
BP: 30.12 in Hg

 

#          FPS  FT-LBS      PF
10    1018    310.70  137.43
9    1025    314.99  138.38
8    1044    326.78  140.94
7    1007    304.02  135.95
6    1002    301.01  135.27
5    1021    312.54  137.84
4    964      278.61  130.14
3    985      290.89  132.98
2    980      287.94  132.30
1    1019    311.31  137.57

 

Average: 1006.5 FPS
SD: 24.1 FPS
Min: 964 FPS
Max: 1044 FPS
Spread: 80 FPS

I think maybe you should stick with Titegroup. Your WST loads are all over the place. My 3.9gr load was chronoed at 95+  °F. 

[BillGarlandJr]

If anyone is into shooting 135s, I messed around with a load using E3 that worked pretty well. 

 

With a 135gr Blue Bullet over 3.4gr of E3 loaded to 1.130” I was getting a 133pf with a SD in the 10ish range. This was out of my P320 X5. I didn’t shoot these for accuracy over sandbags, but I did a few 10 round strings into the head box of an USPSA target at about 25yds. I’d estimate the groups sizes in the 2.5 to 3 inch range. It was a piece of cake keeping all 10 rounds either inside the upper A zone, or close by in the B zone.  I’m not sure if I’m ready to make the switch from my Prima V loads as they perform similarly, but for someone looking for a starting point for a 135gr 9mm load  this might be a good one.  BTW...may current load is 3.7gr of Prima V (16055 Batch) with the same Bullet loaded to the same length. Goes for a 135ish pf.

[SCTaylor]

If anyone is into shooting 135s, I messed around with a load using E3 that worked pretty well. 
 
With a 135gr Blue Bullet over 3.4gr of E3 loaded to 1.130” I was getting a 133pf with a SD in the 10ish range.

I agree. Basically the same load and results in a Stock 2. I really like this powder.



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[RH45]

It was suggested, by a commercial reloader for me to try 3.1 grains of VV310, behind a 147 grain jhp, as an accuracy load, and has made pf out of everything I've put them through.

I bought a new, 5" M&P, 2.0 and shot some off the bench, with an ISMI 13# recoil spring, but, when I went to shoot a match, with FULL magazines, it slowed the slide down enough that I was having issues.

There's no published data for VV310, behind a 147 grain hp.

Does anybody know if I can SAFELY bump up to 3.5 grains? 

[RH45]

O.K. So, it's a balmy 18 degrees here today, so I thought I would bump my load, and try it.

I used Speer, once-fired, nickle plated, +P cases that I'd already inspected, and measured, Winchester, small pistol primers, Zero 147 grain jhps, with 3.3 grains of VV310 behind them, at an O.A.L. of 1.14"

I loaded a new magazine, to 17 rounds, plus one in the chamber, to put as much upward pressure on the slide as possible, and while chronographing, after each shot, I would put another round, in the magazine, to keep it full. The gun didn't choke at all, but, the brass only went a couple of feet. I inspected the brass, and everything looks good.

Chrono results:

911

914

917

914

911

910

916

906

900

903

904

average of 909, 133.623pf which is just about where I'd want to be, for a major match.

The only reason I can think of, that the velocities were going down, towards the end was because I was loading, and shooting faster,and the barrel was getting warm,  because my fingers were starting to get numb. Needless to say, the group at 25 yards was less than stellar!

 

I would expect, that if I would have been using yellow brass, my velocities would have been higher.

With this load, as well as with 9mm major loads, I would ONLY use once-fired brass, and would work up to it ONLY with brass of the same headstamp, and lot.

Maybe I'm overly cautious, but, I"ve seen other shooters blow up guns, and it's never pretty.

[gmantwo]

I was worried Competition would be too fast. Shoot a ton of Titegroup, but my XDm’s have to be cleaned during a match or they get unreliable. Looking for a cleaner powder to replace TTG with

[gmantwo]

On 11/30/2017 at 8:28 PM, EddieCrispo said:

I use shilouette. 124grn 9mm. Shoots way soft in my open gun


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When I tried Silhouette for minor the velocities were literally all over the place. Some were scary

[gmantwo]

On 8/8/2017 at 1:05 PM, zzt said:

Alliant American Select is the functional equivalent to Solo 1000.  What one does, the other does as well.  I have about 5 lbs. of Solo 1000 left, only because I stopped using it for shotshells and hoarded it for 45 ACP Major loads.  Am Sel is hard to find in 8 lb jugs, but it is available.  Try a 1 lb and see what you think.

How does the American Select do? Is it clean? 

[zzt]

American Select is super clean.

[bigdawgbeav]

So I cannot speak to chrono results as I don't have any yet, but I can say that 3.3gr. of Clays under a 124gr. coated bullet feels and shoots great.  I plan on getting the chrono out when I get an opportunity.  I'm shooting Steel Challenge so I'm not actually worried about making minor, but I like knowing anyway.

[Broncman]

I am a huge fan of Hogdon Universal Clay's in 9mm minor. On my second 8 lb jug. Clean, meters great. Accurate.

 

4.3 to 4.6 grains.

 

Keep in my there is Universal Clay's and standard Clay's. Two different powders.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Broncman

[gmantwo]

I called Ramshot last week. I called to ask about Competition.

The tech guy said he would not recommend Competition or Zip either for minor 9. He suggested Accurate #5. I used to shoot that, don’ Remember why I stopped, lol

[RH45]

Accurate #2 feels as close to VV320, and works great out of straight barrels, but, in an open gun, with a comp, leaves the barrel & chamber filthy 

[bigdawgbeav]

Back to my Clays... my testing load was with AUS Clays.  I have finally exhausted my supply of AUS Clays and have moved over to the CAN Clays.  I do know that the CAN Clays has slower velocities, so have to bump the charge a little bit.  I still have to chrono and going to do that this weekend.  

 

On a side note, from a volume perspective, 3.3gr of AUS Clays meters to 3.8gr of CAN Clays.

 

The plan is to test 15 rounds of AUS Clays at 3.3gr with a 124gr PC Bullet and then the same with 3.4gr of CAN Clays.  The testing of the AUS is kind of moot since I don't have any more, but I'm curious as to where we end up.

[IDescribe]

On 2/11/2018 at 2:59 PM, RH45 said:

 

Maybe I'm overly cautious, but, I"ve seen other shooters blow up guns, and it's never pretty.

 

You're not overly cautious.  Using a powder in a caliber with no published data and that the manufacturer recommends against using isn't cautious.  Doing so and using with a heavy-for-caliber bullet is even less cautious.  Upping the charge from the one given you is even less cautious. You have no idea what pressures you're operating at.  This is one of the ways people blow up guns.  Use your N310 for .45.  It's great for that.   

 

Also, 9mm +P brass is the same spec as 9mm brass.  The only difference is that one has +P on the headstamp.  That's not the same for all calibers, but that's how it is for 9mm.   I'm not sure why you chose to load it in +P brass, but I assume there was a reason other than just wanting the headstamp to show +P, yet that's all 9mm +P brass is.

 

As to an "accuracy load" N310 is not known for it with 9mm -- .45 yes, but not 9mm.  It sounds like your 25 yard shooting has already told you it's not great for that.  Lots of people out there are happy with 4 inches at 10 yards.  "Good enough for action pistol!"   Not so much.

Among the faster burning powders that I've found still produce excellent accuracy with low recoil in 9mm minor loads, Bullseye,  N320, and American Select are among the best I've loaded, with Bullseye being the best.   These are NOT the most accurate powders I've loaded, just the ones with in the right burn rate range for 9mm  minor.  American Select is probably the most under-rated 9mm minor powder there is in that it's excellent, but very few use it for 9mm minor. 

[Banacek]

Curious as to what you use to load 9mm minor. I've used solo 1000 for a lot of years with good results. Now that I'm almost out and can't find it, I' looking for a replacement.
 

Adding my 2 cents. I like CFE Pistol but it can be snappy. I was surprised how much I liked Longshot. It was smoother shooting at high velocity.

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[dvc4you]

Clays


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[bigdawgbeav]

So for those that care, here is what I came up with at the chrono last weekend:

 

3.3gr. Clays - AUS, 124gr. PC Bullet (coated), OAL: 1.125, CCI Primers (20 rounds)

Vel High - 1047

Vel Low - 994

Vel Average - 1014

ES: 53

SD: 13

Ave PF: 125.7

 

3.4gr. Clays - CAN, 124gr. PC Bullet (coated), OAL: 1.125, CCI Primers (30 rounds)

Vel High - 1071 

Vel Low - 979

Vel Average - 1034

ES: 92

SD: 21

Ave PF: 128.2

 

For the Canadian Clays the spread might be because I didn't measure each and every charge, it was simply how it came off the powder throw.  So I might be able to tighten up a bit as I also did the rounds in a couple of different batches.

 

At this point the numbers for the Aussie Clays really doesn't matter for me as I'm now completely out of it.  Nice to know the Canadian Clays isn't actually too far off the mark.  I won't go so far to state that it meter's like dog poop as some of that could be operator error.

[Dbw2223]

Nothing wrong with titegroup for me but looking at maybe switching to something cleaner. American select or prima v?

[4n2t0]

53 minutes ago, Dbw2223 said:

Nothing wrong with titegroup for me but looking at maybe switching to something cleaner. American select or prima v?

 

American Select.

 

Just remember, they're all dirty when loaded near the very bottom.

Edited April 24, 2018 by 4n2t0

[HalRex]

For 9mm minor loads used in steel matches I decided to try the same powder as I use for 9mm major in my open gun.

The major load is Precision Delta 124 JHP over 7.1 of Autocomp, 1.165 OAL, PF is 171.

The minor load I settled on is Precision Delta 115 JHP over 6.0 of Autocomp, 1.16 OAL, PF 140. It feels soft and the dot tracks well/consistently. I did note that, at 30', the hits were about 1-1/2" higher than with the major load. Not sure exactly why that is...

[ddc]

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 7:19 AM, HalRex said:

For 9mm minor loads used in steel matches I decided to try the same powder as I use for 9mm major in my open gun.

The major load is Precision Delta 124 JHP over 7.1 of Autocomp, 1.165 OAL, PF is 171.

The minor load I settled on is Precision Delta 115 JHP over 6.0 of Autocomp, 1.16 OAL, PF 140. It feels soft and the dot tracks well/consistently. I did note that, at 30', the hits were about 1-1/2" higher than with the major load. Not sure exactly why that is...

This is my theory and that is all that it is and it applies only to handguns firing handgun cartridges at close ranges, say 50 yards and in.

So...

The slower the bullet then the longer it is in the barrel.

The longer it is in the barrel then the more time the pistol has to go through the recoil cycle before the bullet leaves the barrel.

As the time to exit the barrel increases the barrel of the pistol is rising higher and higher through the cycle.

So the slower moving bullet exits the barrel when the barrel is at a higher angle than it would if it were faster.

At handgun distances this makes a difference.

Or maybe I'm all wet.... :-)

 

[HalRex]

7 hours ago, ddc said:

This is my theory and that is all that it is and it applies only to handguns firing handgun cartridges at close ranges, say 50 yards and in.

So...

The slower the bullet then the longer it is in the barrel.

The longer it is in the barrel then the more time the pistol has to go through the recoil cycle before the bullet leaves the barrel.

As the time to exit the barrel increases the barrel of the pistol is rising higher and higher through the cycle.

So the slower moving bullet exits the barrel when the barrel is at a higher angle than it would if it were faster.

At handgun distances this makes a difference.

Or maybe I'm all wet....

 

Sounds reasonable to me! Regardless, I’m trying to decide whether to measure how many clicks down to adjust my sight for minor and then mark it. Or, just leave the sight alone and aim low