ACree Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Have any of you experienced this issue... I have a 2011 in hand that belongs to a shooter who is literally .3 qualification points from being a a GM. He has a 2011 Edge that works well until he really gets on the trigger. Practicing the El Prez with consistent .13 split times, the hammer fell to half-cock several times. Short of those kind of split times, the trigger performed as it should. Once I had the gun in my hands, I could recreate the problem by riding the trigger a bit while cycling the slide quickly. By "riding the trigger" I mean that I have put some pressure on the trigger, but did not have it pulled all of the way to the rear. While doing this, I could get the hammer to drop to the half-cock notch often. This gun actually has a bit too much pre-travel for me, but it measures at .048. Hammer hooks have been cut on the mill at 90-degrees and are .019 tall. Sear shows very even. solid contact with both hammer hooks. All parts were polished and prepped. The ignition parts pass every test that I know - it just fails when you ride the trigger a bit. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY BARONE Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Do a trigger bounce test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACree Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 It passes that tests, as well as any other that I know or have every seen. That is what is perplexing about this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Sounds like the grip is failing. Have you performed the grip movement/gap test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BASE772 Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Interested in this myself. I've got a 1911 that will some times follow to half cock only when I shoot several rounds (4-8) rapidly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACree Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 Sounds like the grip is failing. Have you performed the grip movement/gap test?Could you explain this please?Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY BARONE Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 What is the weight of the trigger pull and did you try more pressure on the disconnector.? I suspect bad hammer sear engagement or sear spring grip intereference Hammer should never fall with any kind of trigger manipulation. With .13 splits hammer can only follow by trigger bounce providing everything in the trigger group is correct. I have 30,000 rounds each on two race guns with 14oz. triggers never had hammer follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theWacoKid Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Yep, check grip/frame interface first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 If you don't know how to check the proper grip to frame fit then get it to a gunsmith who does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACree Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 If you don't know how to check the proper grip to frame fit then get it to a gunsmith who does. I am aware of proper grip to frame fit, but was asking about the "gap test" as you called it. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACree Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 What is the weight of the trigger pull and did you try more pressure on the disconnector.? I suspect bad hammer sear engagement or sear spring grip intereference Hammer should never fall with any kind of trigger manipulation. With .13 splits hammer can only follow by trigger bounce providing everything in the trigger group is correct. I have 30,000 rounds each on two race guns with 14oz. triggers never had hammer follow.Trigger was set at 2.5 pounds, proper sear and hammer hook engagement, etc. Disconnector spring was set a 1 pound. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Grab the frame and slide in one hand, then the grip with the other hand. Then push and pull the grip (a motion like trying to break a stick in half) while watching the back of the grip where it touches the back of the frame. You shouldn't be able to change the gap between the grip and frame. If you can, the grip screws are loose or the the grip is is delaminating internally and ruined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACree Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 Grab the frame and slide in one hand, then the grip with the other hand. Then push and pull the grip (a motion like trying to break a stick in half) while watching the back of the grip where it touches the back of the frame. You shouldn't be able to change the gap between the grip and frame. If you can, the grip screws are loose or the the grip is is delaminating internally and ruined. I am following you now, there is no issue with the grip and frame fit with this new 2011 frame. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 The frame isn't the variable that can fail. It's the grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaylanGivens Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Make sure the grip screws are tight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACree Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 Grip fit the frame well, grips screws were tight. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theWacoKid Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 On 8/7/2017 at 1:52 PM, CCG said: Grip fit the frame well, grips screws were tight. You figure this out? 99% sure it's in the grip somehow. I just went through this when swapping a different grip onto a working gun. Basically somehow the geometry of the grip and sear spring allowed the disconnector to travel downward a little too far when hammering the trigger allowing the sear to disconnect early and return against the hammer and catch half cock. One grip causes it to happen, two others do not and otherwise all parts are the same. It's all in the grip, sear spring, fire control geometry. If it's not a failed, loose, or poorly fitting grip it's just the combo of parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACree Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 We ended up going to a all steel grip and the problem disappeared. If definitely was in the grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Its funny how these hammer follow failure troubleshooting processes almost always come full circle. Common Troubleshooting Process... Q = Random Hammer follow issues, what do I do to fix it? A = Grip is bad make sure its tight and if it is then replace the grip Q = The grip is fine so I change a bunch of other stuff and still have the same problem A = Grip is bad, Replace the grip Q = The grip is fine, we checked it and my brothers cousins uncle checked it too. The same problem happens A = Grip is bad, Replace the grip Q = The grip is fine, took it to another gunsmith who couldn't figure it out. The same problem happens A = Grip is bad, Replace the grip Q = We replaced the grip and amazingly the problem is resolved A = We told you that the grip was bad at the start of this troubleshooting process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACree Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) Thank you Char-Lee, but there was no way to guarantee that having the customer spend the money for a new grip would be the answer. Especially a $650 steel grip. In this case it was the grip and therefore you got to say I told you so. Last odd trigger issue I saw was due to an out of spec pin in the sear fixture. I am glad that I didn't replace the grip first on that one... Edited November 8, 2017 by CCG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 If you think the grip is bad you couldn't you test another plastic grip before dropping $650 on a steel Grip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACree Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 If you think the grip is bad you couldn't you test another plastic grip before dropping $650 on a steel Grip?If one had been on hand, possibly, but not sure the negative issue would not have been present in thay grip as well. Also, customer was leaning toward replacing with a steel grip IF necessary. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Hello: I have also seen problems with sear springs with bad heat treatment or material that cause all sorts of problems as well. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpulled Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Damn ! Some people are dicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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