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Your grip (and its evolution)?


matteekay

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What grip* do you use when shooting revos in competition? How did you arrive on it, and do you change it based on the gun/frame size?

 

*Grip being positioning of the hands, not the wooden stocks on the gun

 

This is one of those topics that won't have one clear answer - and that's totally fine. I'm asking as I'm trying to figure out how I can start improving and one obvious place is consistency, both in group size on paper and in hitting steel. I've come to the determination that this is stemming from my grip being too loose and, possibly, wrong. I have no actual training so I have no idea. Naturally this lead me down a YouTube hole (largely of Miculek videos) looking for answers but the one thing I've learned from shooting is that there is no "one size fits all" solution so I'd love to hear some thoughts on the matter.

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For the record, right now I'm using a thumbs-forward grip on both my 627 and K-frames that I use in ICORE. I've tried JM's thumbs-over grip but I seem to get a lot more wobble; I think this might be because I have smaller hands and short fingers.

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I still use the old school "lock one thumb down with the other" grip from when I started shooting revos about 40 years ago...  Brand new Model 19. Wish I had that gun back! 

I use the same grip with the 1911s, etc. Works, so why change it. Tight grips and relaxed trigger finger. Or something like that...

 

PS

I also still use the front finger trigger guard hook FWIW

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I went through a lot of trial and error and have settled on the grip below.  When I draw the gun I slide my trigger finger along the frame as seen below on the left, I position my middle finger so the joint settles right on the edge of the trigger guard then wrap the fingers around and lock my thumb in place.  Once the gun clears the holster I'll stick my support hand pinky underneath the strong hand pinky and that fills the gap left in the big butt grip.  There is a good bit of tension vertically on the fingers and it really helps to keep everything in place.  At that point my support hand fingers will settle into the strong hand and lock in place as I squeeze them both.  The support thumb doesn't need to point anywhere in particular as long as it goes on top of the strong hand thumb and keeps it in place.  This is the highest up on the gun I can get a repeatable grip that works well for me.  Also, making sure the gun is aligned with your forearm can help with a natural and repeatable index.  Lastly, my support hand does about 2/3 of the gripping force for most shooting.  When I'm going full speed on a close target the support hand is probably doing 90% in order to work the trigger fast enough.   Just my two cents.  If you haven't read Ben Stoeger's book there is a good section on gripping the gun there that is worth reading.

 

Grip.png.57a6891e4b8176fcc312aa769ebcf939.png

Edited by Alaskan454
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9 hours ago, Dr. Phil said:

I still use the old school "lock one thumb down with the other" grip from when I started shooting revos about 40 years ago...  Brand new Model 19. Wish I had that gun back! 

I use the same grip with the 1911s, etc. Works, so why change it. Tight grips and relaxed trigger finger. Or something like that...

 

PS

I also still use the front finger trigger guard hook FWIW

 

Haha, I'm a big K Frame fan too. I use a 14-3 for ICORE Limited 6 and a 15-3 for IDPA.

 

4 hours ago, Alaskan454 said:

I went through a lot of trial and error and have settled on the grip below.  When I draw the gun I slide my trigger finger along the frame as seen below on the left, I position my middle finger so the joint settles right on the edge of the trigger guard then wrap the fingers around and lock my thumb in place.  Once the gun clears the holster I'll stick my support hand pinky underneath the strong hand pinky and that fills the gap left in the big butt grip.  There is a good bit of tension vertically on the fingers and it really helps to keep everything in place.  At that point my support hand fingers will settle into the strong hand and lock in place as I squeeze them both.  The support thumb doesn't need to point anywhere in particular as long a it goes on top of the strong hand thumb and keeps it in place.  This is the highest up on the gun I can get a repeatable grip that works well for me.  Also, making sure the gun is aligned with your forearm can help with a natural and repeatable index.  Lastly, my support hand does about 2/3 of the gripping force for most shooting.  When I'm going full speed on a close target the support hand is probably doing 90% in order to work the trigger fast enough.   Just my two cents.  If you haven't read Ben Stoeger's book there is a good section on gripping the gun there that is worth reading.

 

Grip.png.57a6891e4b8176fcc312aa769ebcf939.png

 

THANK YOU! I appreciate you posting all that - that's exactly the kind of insight I was looking for. So you're also doing thumb-over-thumb? If you're aligning the gun with your forearm, then do you have one arm straighter than the other or are your elbows pushed out the same?

 

I haven't read any Stoeger - which do you recommend? 

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6 hours ago, matteekay said:

 

Haha, I'm a big K Frame fan too. I use a 14-3 for ICORE Limited 6 and a 15-3 for IDPA.

 

 

THANK YOU! I appreciate you posting all that - that's exactly the kind of insight I was looking for. So you're also doing thumb-over-thumb? If you're aligning the gun with your forearm, then do you have one arm straighter than the other or are your elbows pushed out the same?

 

I haven't read any Stoeger - which do you recommend? 

PS

I still use a Weaver(ish) stance. I think the thumb-over thing works well with that stance. Works for me anyway.

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8 hours ago, matteekay said:

THANK YOU! I appreciate you posting all that - that's exactly the kind of insight I was looking for. So you're also doing thumb-over-thumb? If you're aligning the gun with your forearm, then do you have one arm straighter than the other or are your elbows pushed out the same?

 

I haven't read any Stoeger - which do you recommend? 

It ends up that my support hand thumb keeps the other one in place but they don't line up perfectly.  I'll try to get a picture.

 

As for elbows one will be bent slightly more than the other if I'm pointing directly in front of my body.   Also,  I try to keep my posture upright and neutral.  Jerrry Miculek has some great videos about this, I used to turtle and extend my arms all the way out.  His method works much better for me.

 

The only Stoeger book I have is Practical Pistol Reloaded, tons of good information there.  I wish I read it sooner.

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Thank you again! Your arm position sounds close to mine. JM seems to recommend holding the gun dead-center with your elbows out the same distance, but I definitely push my weak-hand elbow out further and keep my strong hand elbow straighter. As you indicate, this pushes back my right foot so my stance is slightly Weaver-ish, but ironically, I think it's close to what BEnos recommends in his book.

 

I'm going to experiment with trying thumbs-over again. I find that my trigger finger starts to get fatigued when I squeeze the overloving crap out of the gun with my strong hand - using the weak hand to squeeze my strong hand/thumb should help with that. I've also been trying Robert Vogel's autoloader technique, wherein you torque your wrists inward to maintain control rather than push-pull or relying entirely on grip strength.

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You got me thinking about arm position a bit.  It looks like I draw the gun inline with my right arm but don't keep that angle once I'm on target.  My sights are lined up perpendicular to my body but offset to be inline with my dominant eye.  Never actually realized I was doing that until just now.  

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I do everything Alaskan454 does except I place my support hand thumb on the back of the blast shield where it meets the body of the gun and just under the rear sight. I push forward and that seems to trap the gun into my strong hand and helps me control muzzle flip. When I am hanging on real tight I am squeezing the gun from all directions.

It's not text book, I know, but it works well for me. Very solid.

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On 7/29/2017 at 3:10 PM, Alaskan454 said:

You got me thinking about arm position a bit.  It looks like I draw the gun inline with my right arm but don't keep that angle once I'm on target.  My sights are lined up perpendicular to my body but offset to be inline with my dominant eye.  Never actually realized I was doing that until just now.  

 

Oh boy, I hope the outcome of this thread isn't that I inadvertently wreck something, lol. 

 

On 7/29/2017 at 3:45 PM, rjkelso said:

I do everything Alaskan454 does except I place my support hand thumb on the back of the blast shield where it meets the body of the gun and just under the rear sight. I push forward and that seems to trap the gun into my strong hand and helps me control muzzle flip. When I am hanging on real tight I am squeezing the gun from all directions.

It's not text book, I know, but it works well for me. Very solid.

 

I would do this when I had my Rhino as it has a giant, flat blast shield and no cylinder release to interfere with my thumb (it's got a latch up high). On my Smiths, the combination of my short thumbs and the cylinder release means that I can only get the tip of my thumb on the shield, which is more painful than it is helpful.

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As far as I am concerned you guys with shorter thumbs got it good when it comes to working the cylinder latch. It feels like I have to back way off the gun to get at the latch. Is the idea of an extended cylinder latch to access it higher on the gun? If so that may work for me. I've been using an EGW old fashioned flat latch and that has been ok. This weekend I installed the same one 454 is using and that seems okay too. I do seem to use the top portion of the face of it without upsetting my grip. If it works out I might try the Hogue latch. :wacko: Then again, I don't know.

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40 minutes ago, rjkelso said:

As far as I am concerned you guys with shorter thumbs got it good when it comes to working the cylinder latch. It feels like I have to back way off the gun to get at the latch. Is the idea of an extended cylinder latch to access it higher on the gun? If so that may work for me. I've been using an EGW old fashioned flat latch and that has been ok. This weekend I installed the same one 454 is using and that seems okay too. I do seem to use the top portion of the face of it without upsetting my grip. If it works out I might try the Hogue latch. :wacko: Then again, I don't know.

Not sure which one you have but there's a long and short version. http://www.revolversupply.com/cylinder-release/

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Not sure where I got mine. It's aluminum. And I had to relieve the back of it so my empty moonclips wouldn't catch on it. I also had to reshape the underside to match the factory latch or it wouldn't slide forward enough to unlock the cylinder. Anyway it's looks like yours except it doesn't reach as high up as yours does.

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I got mine from 10mmdave on this forum and those are his parts in the link above.  The best thing about his design for me is that it does come up high enough that I don't need to move my strong hand to press it.

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I use a short RSC latch on my guns, but I use my weak-hand thumb to depress it. I've tried all of them and that's definitely my favorite.

 

Least favorite would be the California Competition Works with its pointless 45-degree ramp...

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I have huge hands. Palming a basketball is child's play for me. So interlocking the thumbs practically places them over the cylinder release. Snub noses and 629s tend to recoil enough that my thumb knuckle catches the cylinder release and it draws blood. So after lots of experimentation I've gone with a thumbs forward approach. Strong hand thumb floats above the release just below and to the side of the rear sight. Depending on the gun the tip of my thumb may rest on the rear plate behind the cylinder.
The support hand applies 2/3 of the grip force and I also hook the trigger guard with the index finger (again big hands). Support hand thumb is also forward along the frame just below the cylinder.
I haven't had any blast problems on either thumb shooting 357 mag and below.
Shooting ICORE, IDPA and Steel Challenge.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just wanted to follow up...

 

I recently changed to thumbs-over based on this thread and I did see an increase in accuracy despite having short fingers. It feels like pulling down with the support thumb snugs the backstrap into the webbing of my strong hand. My strong hand gets more control without needing to grip the everloving life out of the stocks, freeing up tension on my index finger for a smoother trigger pull.

 

Thanks for all the insights!

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