chenault Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) I've been doing USPSA for about 6 months now, have done two matches, so I'm pretty green; however, I've really been working on my foundation skills. I think I'm to the point where I know just enough to be dangerous to myself so I wanted a critique from some more experienced shooters of what they see in the video to work on. Don't worry about being harsh, I'm serious about getting better. I don't specifically want to know how to do better on this drill, just if you see things that are goofy or are wrong with my technique, especially my foundation skills. I'm actually not a fan of this drill, I think because it forces me to do skills I'm not always strong on, reload under pressure & fast transitions. This is only my second time doing it so I think it should be a pretty honest showing of my skills. I didn't pick and choose the videos so what you are seeing are the three runs I did, then I went on to work on other skills. I filmed it from three different views to give three different looks at my technique. Temp-105 in the bay Gun-CZ Shadow Division-Production Unranked I'm not sure how to embed the videos into the post so I'll link them. The program I used is new and I matched the times up with what my timer showed. Run 1 had 11Alphas 1 Charlie. Pretty smooth, didn't push it too much. Run 1 Run 2 I tried to push more and was happy that I again got 11 Alphas and 1 Charlie which always seems to be on the last target before my reload. Run 2 Run 3 I really tried to push it, but it wasn't smooth, I hit 3 charlies and 1 delta. On top of that it was almost the same time as run 2 Run 3 Edited July 20, 2017 by chenault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Well, low hanging fruit are the draw and reload. With some dry practice I am sure you can gain a second between the two. Next is transitions as you are between .4 and .6 seconds on those but as you said that will take some time. As far as match performance goes transitions are going to make the most difference as most of the time one draws and reloads are on the move and a half a second extra on each is not going to make a difference on your stage time as you are taking longer than that time going to the next position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenault Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, tanks said: Well, low hanging fruit are the draw and reload. With some dry practice I am sure you can gain a second between the two. Next is transitions as you are between .4 and .6 seconds on those but as you said that will take some time. As far as match performance goes transitions are going to make the most difference as most of the time one draws and reloads are on the move and a half a second extra on each is not going to make a difference on your stage time as you are taking longer than that time going to the next position. What are good turnaround draw times? What should I shoot for on reloads? i can do 1.40 dryfire but when I go into automatic mode I lose .20 on my reload times Edited July 20, 2017 by chenault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMJack Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Take this for what it's worth, but your turn draw seems slow and complicated. In Steve Andersons book - Get to Work, he has a really good chapter on turning draws. I don't feel comfortable giving that away, but I'll say the book is WELL worth the 20 bucks and will do so much more for you than a turning draw. as far as times, I'm not quick (at all), but my turn and draw is about 1.1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenault Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 Honestly, I think my draw is one of my weakest points and I work on it quite a bit. I think ill buy that book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMJack Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) Besides the book, always look at youtube for help. Tim Herron has a really good series of videos for newer comp shooters. Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-RmTUYDL0c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfTL8hYAA28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZLVP-93pow Edited July 21, 2017 by RMJack typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I like my turn and draw to be within 0.20 seconds of my hands at side draw to the same target at the same distance. When you have a 100% reliable A zone hit at 10 yards in 1.00 second and you have a 100% reliable standing reload of 1.00 seconds on an open target at 10 yards you're doing really well. You can build the neural pathway for this in tons of dry fire. Good, proper dry fire. Then you can build the truth of it and the mental confidence of it out on the range with real live fire repetitions. You're going to be on a continuous quality improvement cycle. You'll always have something you're not emphasizing as it's OK and you'll always have something you need to be working on, while concurrently working on your base "everything" skills. And this will change about every 3 to 6 months based on completely honest self assessment and asking the appropriate "others". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) Instead of shooting for a .15 split then wandering over to the next target... Try making yourself shoot six shots at a .25 split next time - whether the gun has transtioned or not. This will cleverly force you to find and snap to the next target much more aggressively. Close your eyes and listen to your shots. Then do the same for Tim's run. He's easily got a full second on you just in four target transitions: (Also, note his turning draw footwork.) Edited July 21, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenault Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 Wow this is some good advice. It's hard to imagine a 1 sec reload. Thank you for the videos, looks like I know what I'll be doing all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Reloads at 1.0 flat in dryfire, and 1.2-1.3 under match conditions are generally considered a very good goal for someone trying to work their way up the ranks in USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenault Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 And that's from shot to shot or from buzzer been to trigger pull correct? sorry for the newb questions, I just want to make sure my foundation is strong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCTaylor Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1.0 in dry fire is first buzzer to start of 2nd buzzer 1.2-1.3 is in live fire shot to shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenault Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) One thing I noticed in the video above is that yes his time is super fast, but only half of his shots are alphas. Am I focusing too much on precision and not enough on speed? Those Charlie's don't hurt much in limited major but for me in production they would kill my score wouldn't they Don't worry I'm taking note of the things he's doing well but that was just an observation. Edited July 21, 2017 by chenault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 It is points divided by time. It is up to each person to determine, based on their skill level, where the point of diminishing returns are in regards to speed vs accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenault Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 Ok thank you. I'm not questioning the method, just trying to educate myself on techniques and methods. I can't thank you guys enough for the help. Your 20 hrs of tips will keep me occupied for a month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 On the draw you get the gun out, then push it lower to get your grip, then raise it again. Try for one motion from the holster to the target. Splits are .19s but transitions are .45s. There's almost a second in just transitions there for you. Shots should sound like 123456 not onetwo, onetwo, onetwo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, chenault said: Ok thank you. I'm not questioning the method, just trying to educate myself on techniques and methods. I can't thank you guys enough for the help. Your 20 hrs of tips will keep me occupied for a month No. Yes. And... maybe. Here's a Production M-class run on Times Two that I shot a few months back. I had a Bravo and three Charlie's on the run! You can shoot A or M or sometimes even GM class scores on classifiers with a few Charlie's quite easily. It's when you shoot too wild and start dropping MOSTLY Charlie's, or a couple deltas and mikes, that things go to hell: Of course, there's always room for improvement. Had I been harder into the sights I might have pulled a couple Cs into the A zone and had a 95% or so run. Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda. Time is always as important as accuracy. On El Prez, it is actually more important. The hit factor on it is high. That means a longer stage time hurts you much more than dropping points at speed. You've gotta shave time off your reload and draw and stop taking all day to get the gun from target to target. Like Waktasz said, listen to my video. There is perhaps the slightest transitional delay between shots 123456, but it isn't that slow 12 ... 34 ... 56 you're doing. My splits are probably slower than yours, but I'm killing you on transitions so badly it doesn't matter. Your transitions are probably slow because your eyes are staying behind the sights as they swing. Instead snap your eyes to the next target once the sights lift, then bring the gun over there. It goes where you look. Edited July 21, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenault Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 I think when I mentioned splits I was meaning transitions. I can definitely see how your's are blowing mine out of the water; that's just my inexperience I guess because when I'm shooting I feel like I'm moving like grease lightning. I think the tip about pulling the trigger at a consistent time and that will force me to transition faster will help. I think I'm living a little too much in the comfort zone as well and not pushing enough. Your points make a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Here is a very measured, nothing that looks special run from me from a while ago on the El Pres. I'm a lot better now but I think this is a good example of what should be attainable for most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenault Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 These videos definitely help me to see where I should be and how I can improve. I can definitely here a more consistent transition from target to target than mine, almost like there is no brake at all between the shooting. Wow, so much wasted movement on my draw compared to you guys, I see that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 And I have a crap reload and can still make it. You'll get there if you put in the effort! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenault Posted July 22, 2017 Author Share Posted July 22, 2017 Effort is the one thing I got in spades and I'm hooked. I know I'll get there, I'm having too much fun not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeinctown Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 On 7/21/2017 at 11:37 AM, chenault said: One thing I noticed in the video above is that yes his time is super fast, but only half of his shots are alphas. Am I focusing too much on precision and not enough on speed? Those Charlie's don't hurt much in limited major but for me in production they would kill my score wouldn't they Don't worry I'm taking note of the things he's doing well but that was just an observation. Tim shoots single stack major, so those charlies are 4 points. On that run posted he scored 52 points in 3.79 seconds for a HF of 13.72, which according to the score calc is way better than 100%. 100% in single stack is just above 10.8HF, so 13.72 is pretty damn high up there. (according to the on line calc) The point of the video for me though is footwork on the turn and transition speed. It is super freaking hard to do, but you need to learn to start pulling the trigger before you are even on target. We strarted practicing this in a training class I took and it is very unnatural and takes a lot of practice. (I'm still so far away) Tim does a footwork video on Youtube on how to turn and draw that helped me immensely on my turn and draws. I'm a shitty shooter so don't take advice from me, take it from the GM's putting the info out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimH Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 On 8/16/2017 at 11:14 AM, mikeinctown said: Tim shoots single stack major, so those charlies are 4 points. On that run posted he scored 52 points in 3.79 seconds for a HF of 13.72, which according to the score calc is way better than 100%. 100% in single stack is just above 10.8HF, so 13.72 is pretty damn high up there. (according to the on line calc) The point of the video for me though is footwork on the turn and transition speed. It is super freaking hard to do, but you need to learn to start pulling the trigger before you are even on target. We strarted practicing this in a training class I took and it is very unnatural and takes a lot of practice. (I'm still so far away) Tim does a footwork video on Youtube on how to turn and draw that helped me immensely on my turn and draws. I'm a shitty shooter so don't take advice from me, take it from the GM's putting the info out there. Wow! Thanks for all the kind words! Yes, the two largest time deficits on el prez are a slow turn/draw and transitions. If your reload is in the 1.1-1.3 sec range, I wouldn't focus a HUGE amount of energy on trying to reduce it as much as transitions. That's where the lowest hanging fruit is. Reducing your reload by .2 saves you just that.... .2. However, if your transitions hover at say .35 and your splits at .20, then reducing your transition time to .20 WITH NO OTHER CHANGES will instantly reduce your overall drill time by .6...This is HUGE! Now, as for the turning draw...most shooters spend too much time on the mechanics of the turn but either don't load the weight on their feet right to allow the turn to "snap" or they simply overthink it. Over time, I've tried a lot of different techniques, however a simple "about face" style of turn gets the job done well and super consistent. The biggest issue is to not spend so much time refining sight picture on the draw. Reducing that in and of itself can shave off an easy .3-.4 sec. So just with improving those two areas on the drill results in a pretty attainable 1.0 sec savings!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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