Crimping the .40 S&W......

[MikieM]

I buy my brass already sized and roll-sized so there is no bulge and it's ready to load. My problem, however, is in the crimping.

When I run the crimp die down to get the needed .419 to .420 case mouth diameter the die becomes sticky, and a noticeable bump is heard when the tool head raises off the cartridge.  

Has anyone had a similar experience, and if so, how did you remedy the situation?

I've got a Redding crimp die coming which may be smoother, or longer than the Dillon die. 

Thanks, Mike.

[TDA]

Are sure it isn't the powder funnel/expander sticking in the case?

 

As far as crimp, all that is "needed" is to remove the belling from the case mouth.

Edited July 19, 2017 by TDA

[Ray_Z]

Gave up measuring case mouth dimensions a long time ago. When I am adjusting dies I take a finished  and slide my fingers from back to front. If I feel a bell I drop the taper crimp die an 1/8th of a turn. Repeating the process until I no longer feel a bell but am not distorting the case.

[MikieM]

Do either of you load .40 S&W?

[GrumpyOne]

I reload 40 and I'm betting that it's the powder funnel as well.

[MikieM]

11 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

I reload 40 and I'm betting that it's the powder funnel as well.

 

It isn't the powder funnel. On the S1050 the funnel is tapered. All it does is flare the case mouth. 

I have run several rounds through the machine, one at a time, and can see them stick to the crimp die when the die is pulled away from the cartridge. 

My problem is that when I reduce the amount of crimp, by screwing the die out of the tool head, to the point where the sticking (and audible bump) stops the round won't plunk into my Shockbottle, or the chamber of my gun.

[TDA]

44 minutes ago, MikieM said:

Do either of you load .40 S&W?

Yes, I've loaded thousands.

 

Are you using a Lee FCD?

Edited July 20, 2017 by TDA

[benos]

Try loading say 10 - 15 rounds, shoot them, and load that brass again and see if the problem is as noticeable. If it's a little less, then load / shoot them again and see if it goes away. If it does, then you know the problem is with the "new" brass. 

[MemphisMechanic]

I think Brian is onto something if you're sure it's the crimp die.

 

Try lubing a few cases and see if the problem disappears. Personally, in all caliber I load I use One Shot. Spray the inside of a small tuppeware for one second, dump in a couple handfuls, and roll them around in it. That way lube doesn't contaminate the powder if I didn't let the inside of the cases air dry long enough.

 

Keep it only on the outside of the cases instead of spraying some directly into the mouths, and you can load immediately.

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[MikieM]

1 hour ago, benos said:

Try loading say 10 - 15 rounds, shoot them, and load that brass again and see if the problem is as noticeable. If it's a little less, then load / shoot them again and see if it goes away. If it does, then you know the problem is with the "new" brass. 

 

Hey, Boss.

The brass I'm using is once fired Winchester that has been re-sized, and roll-sized. When loaded to the correct dimensions it will plunk base first, as well as bullet first. 

When loading the .40 S&W on my 550B there were no problems, save for a lot of brass granules coming from the crimp die. Making the caliber change to the S1050 was when the sticking (loud bump) began. The loaded ammo comes out just fine except for the annoyance of the sticking crimp die.

The brass length measures .843 to .845 and the loaded rounds are 1.170 inches in length. The ammo will plunk on both ends, but when I back off on the crimp to where the case mouth (loaded) measures .421, or more, the rounds won't go in the gun.

And, like Memphis suggested, I tried a little case lube. It worked reasonably well, but there has to be a better way.

Edited July 20, 2017 by MikieM

[tomjerry1]

I get this on my 550, but not with 40, but 38 super, not sure why, the crimp is fine, just a nuisance I guess. It happens on the up stroke, and seems like the case is slightly stuck until the ram lowers enough and the case pops out of the crimp die.  

[MikieM]

9 minutes ago, tomjerry1 said:

I get this on my 550, but not with 40, but 38 super, not sure why, the crimp is fine, just a nuisance I guess. It happens on the up stroke, and seems like the case is slightly stuck until the ram lowers enough and the case pops out of the crimp die.  

 

Precisely! Although your's happens when you pull the round out of the die on the down stroke. Mine is just the opposite. It happens when I pull the crimp die off of the round on the up stroke. 

Thanks.

[MikieM]

Found the problem.

The Reloading Manual for Straight Wall Pistol Cases, Third Addition. Section 102, Sub-section 1a. states: Too much case mouth flair, (sometimes referred to as bell) may cause crimping problems. Use a very small amount of case mouth flair when seating lead bullets, and little to none when seating jacketed bullets. Failure to do so may cause frustration and the loss of valuable time. Why this phenomenon occurs is unknown, nor do we (the authors) care. Thank you for purchasing our manual.

 

[MikieM]

Check that. The problem hasn't resolved.

Dillon says it's too much crimp. Fast and Friendly suggested a little lube in the crushed Walnut, but neither has worked completely.

Took the barrel out of my STI. Plunking was inconsistent.

Got some brass coming. Will give it a try,

Frustrating, to say the least.

 

[jhgtyre]

On 7/19/2017 at 6:20 PM, MikieM said:

And, like Memphis suggested, I tried a little case lube. It worked reasonably well, but there has to be a better way.

So lubing fixed the problem but you don't want to lube?

 

On 7/21/2017 at 5:22 PM, MikieM said:

Got some brass coming. Will give it a try,

Trying different brass is also a good plan.
 

 

On 7/21/2017 at 9:39 AM, MikieM said:

Found the problem.

The Reloading Manual for Straight Wall Pistol Cases, Third Addition. Section 102, Sub-section 1a. states: Too much case mouth flair, (sometimes referred to as bell) may cause crimping problems. Use a very small amount of case mouth flair when seating lead bullets, and little to none when seating jacketed bullets. Failure to do so may cause frustration and the loss of valuable time. Why this phenomenon occurs is unknown, nor do we (the authors) care. Thank you for purchasing our manual.

 

How much flare are you using?  Just enough to keep the bullet from falling off when you place it on the case mouth is fine (unless you use so little it shaves off the outside of the bullet).  Then you still have enough tension to hold the projectile in place with minimal crimping.

 

Like you said it does seem frustrating.  More so since you were doing this on your 550 without problems.

On 7/19/2017 at 6:20 PM, MikieM said:

When loading the .40 S&W on my 550B there were no problems, save for a lot of brass granules coming from the crimp die.

What was up with these "brass granules" coming from your crimp die?  I see this with the seating die if the case mouth isn't flared enough but the crimp die shouldn't be shaving brass unless you've applied a LOT flare to the case mouth and even then it seems odd.  Then again maybe I just haven't ever applied that much flare.

[Ssanders224]

A "bump" on the upstroke of a 1050 isn't uncommon, although it usually comes from the sizing die.  Can you take a quick vid of how bad the "bump" is?  
Use minimum flare, and lube your cases (you should be lubing anyway).  Try some different brass.

 

If the problem persists, I'd just try another crimp die.  If it continues with another die,  and the bump isn't all that bad, and you are producing good ammo, I'd just go with it. 

 

(and yes, I load a LOT of .40  ) 

[MikieM]

1 hour ago, jhgtyre said:

So lubing fixed the problem but you don't want to lube?

 

Trying different brass is also a good plan.
 

 

How much flare are you using?  Just enough to keep the bullet from falling off when you place it on the case mouth is fine (unless you use so little it shaves off the outside of the bullet).  Then you still have enough tension to hold the projectile in place with minimal crimping.

 

Like you said it does seem frustrating.  More so since you were doing this on your 550 without problems.

What was up with these "brass granules" coming from your crimp die?  I see this with the seating die if the case mouth isn't flared enough but the crimp die shouldn't be shaving brass unless you've applied a LOT flare to the case mouth and even then it seems odd.  Then again maybe I just haven't ever applied that much flare.

 

I have some different brass coming. Should be here today.

Flare is minimal.

The bump (bang) is happening when the crimp die goes down too far and sticks on the case. Dillon said I was over crimping, but I'm not because for the round to chamber the case mouth must be at least .421, and preferably .420 inches. It is at these dimensions that sticking occurs.

The brass granules aren't that big of a deal.  

Edited July 24, 2017 by MikieM

[MikieM]

56 minutes ago, Ssanders224 said:

A "bump" on the upstroke of a 1050 isn't uncommon, although it usually comes from the sizing die.  Can you take a quick vid of how bad the "bump" is?  
Use minimum flare, and lube your cases (you should be lubing anyway).  Try some different brass.

 

If the problem persists, I'd just try another crimp die.  If it continues with another die,  and the bump isn't all that bad, and you are producing good ammo, I'd just go with it. 

 

(and yes, I load a LOT of .40  ) 

 

I agree, but this is pre-sized (and roll-sized) brass so I have the sizing die out of the machine.

You know, that's the annoying thing about this whole deal. With the sizer out everything runs smooth and fast until the loaded round hit the crimp station. 

It was the same way with my ex-wife. Everything ran smooth and fast until she showed up.  

[MikieM]

I hope this thread has been of benefit to others, especially those new to leading .40 cal. like me.

If only it were like the good old days when I was loading .45 ACP on a Star. It was like riding in a Cadillac. Smooth and quiet.

 

Anyways, I got in a few hundred .40 S&W once fired nickle cases this morning, and tried them. They worked like a charm.  

I hear that nickle plated brass has better lubricity than yellow brass. 

On to the next challenge. How do you get snot out of corduroy? An age old question. 

[Steven420]

23 hours ago, MikieM said:

How do you get snot out of corduroy? An age old question. 

Mr. Clean magic eraser. Duh!