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Most efficient setup for 9mm/5.56/308


crispyrice

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So I have caught the bug and my current setup (lee turret) is not keeping up with my current round count. I am currently shooting ~2,000 9mm a month and I will be shooting about the same in 5.56 come October. Ill also be getting a 308 rifle by December. So my question is what would be the most efficient setup? Unlimited overtime has opened up at work so I'll be able to make a ton of extra fun spending money. I was thinking getting a 650 and 550 using the 650 for 9mm/5.56 and then use the 550 for 5.56 case prep and then loading 308. Would this be a smart Idea? Any other suggestions would be highly appreciated.

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Since $ is probably an issue it is for most of us .

 

a 1050 because it will crimp primer pockets for the .308/.223 and a lot of 9mm lately. a tool head in each caliper...if you want more speed add a mr.bullet feeder 

 

Either a "prep" tool head for the 1050 with Dillon rt1500 for the .233/.308  or you could prep them on a 650 

 

if if you want more speed add a rf100 or vibra prime or pal filler 

 

how much .308 are you planning on loading? 

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The only way I can see a progressive being of any advantage for bottleneck cases is with the RT1500 installed.

Otherwise, at least for me, the operations are:

1) size/decap

2) on or off press: prime

3) remove case from press and measure case length and trim as required

4) charge case (bench-mounted, since case is out of the shell holder/plate any way, is just as fast and inspecting the charge in the case is a LOT easier with the case in hand)

5) Put case back on press and seat bullet.

This almost as fast with a Forster Co-Ax, and there are no toolhead or other cartridge specific parts to replace. I find batch processing to be quite fast enough.

At this point, you can argue that a Lee turret press or even the Pro 1000 would be just as fast as a 650/1050.

I love my 1050s, but I STILL use my Co-Ax for most all bottleneck rounds.

So, your budget will determine where you go.

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1050 for the rifle calibers, setup with trimmer, case and bullet feeder.

650 dedicated to your 9mm, with case feeder.

 

Either the dillon or vibraprime for your primers.  I use the  vibraprime personally and have had good luck with S&B & CCI primers.  It didn't work as well with Winchester primers.

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Would the 1050 be a little to much, I would be able to load a years worth of ammo in a day lol. Also is the one year warranty a problem? What would the cost be for common parts needing to be relpaced?
 

as for 308 Probably 200 rounds a month to begin and slowly increasing from there.

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Would the 1050 be a little to much, I would be able to load a years worth of ammo in a day lol. Also is the one year warranty a problem? What would the cost be for common parts needing to be relpaced?
 
as for 308 Probably 200 rounds a month to begin and slowly increasing from there.

If you are shooting 2,000 rounds a month a 1050 is the way to go.

You will long have made your money back in ammo savings before you start replacing wear items on the 1050. I'm ~17K rounds in on a Mark VII driven 1050 loading 9mm and the only wear part I've replaced is an indexing pawl at $3.95.

The primer pocket swaging, adjustable primer seating depth and priming on the down stroke are worth the price of admission alone.

M


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5 hours ago, Want2BS8ed said:


If you are shooting 2,000 rounds a month a 1050 is the way to go.

You will long have made your money back in ammo savings before you start replacing wear items on the 1050. I'm ~17K rounds in on a Mark VII driven 1050 loading 9mm and the only wear part I've replaced is an indexing pawl at $3.95.

The primer pocket swaging, adjustable primer seating depth and priming on the down stroke are worth the price of admission alone.

M


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

So then would it be worth it to get the 550 for brass processing and loading 308? Also what would the price difference be with all the conversions, it seems like there would be a huge price difference going the 1050 route. How long does it usually take you to change out calibers?

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Id go 650 with case feeder.  MBF for 9 and 223, set bullets for 308 by hand.  Skip the 550.  Use a single stage if you need to resize 7.62x51 MG brass if you use that for 308.

 

Set up a head for brass prep only with decapper, trimmer and M-die.  Possibly add a SwageIt, havent seen any negative reviews or press failure due to it yet from anything Ive found on the internet.  Setup heads loading each caliber, possibly with each having their own powder measure for fast change overs.  If you have the time, loading and shooting 2k a month can be done in 4-5 hours on a well setup progressive.  

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6 hours ago, Kaldor said:

Id go 650 with case feeder.  MBF for 9 and 223, set bullets for 308 by hand.  Skip the 550.  Use a single stage if you need to resize 7.62x51 MG brass if you use that for 308.

 

Set up a head for brass prep only with decapper, trimmer and M-die.  Possibly add a SwageIt, havent seen any negative reviews or press failure due to it yet from anything Ive found on the internet.  Setup heads loading each caliber, possibly with each having their own powder measure for fast change overs.  If you have the time, loading and shooting 2k a month can be done in 4-5 hours on a well setup progressive.  

I was originally thinking that plus is the swag station worth it seems like a wasted space if loading 9mm no?

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13 hours ago, crispyrice said:

I was originally thinking that plus is the swag station worth it seems like a wasted space if loading 9mm no?

 

You would only run the swager while processing rifle brass.  When you go back to loading, you would put the primer back in.  


Bear in mind, I do not own a 650, but this is whats sense to me:

Decap in 1

Swager would replace primer in 2 on down stroke

Trimmer in 3

Either M-Die or sizing die in 5 to size necks.

 

Someone place correct me if Im wrong on stations.  

I own a LnL and have kicked around adding a trimmer to mine. and that is the setup Id use.  Honestly will probably buy a 650 and keep both presses as they both have their place. and do some things better than the other.  This is why Ive tracked the on press swaging devices for the 650 with great interest.

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Clean brass in wet tumble let dry Lube with Dillon spray  Prep tool head: Station 1 decap/full length resize (some people use the rapid trim to resize some don't?)
Station 2 blank 
Swage it tool
Station 3 rapid trim 1200
Station 4 blank 
Station 5 Lyman M die(to debur slightly) Either tumble in Wet tumbler again to take off lube Pros: don't have to buy a dry tumbler Will clean primer pocketsShould fully debur the case mouthCons: have to wait to dry again. as long as You do big batches this shouldn't be a problem Or dry/vibratory tumble for 20-30mins to get lube off Loading tool head: Station 1 Lee universal decapping die(Incase any media is in flash hole) Station 2 Dillon powder die Station 3 mr. Bullet feeder Station 4 Dillon bullet seating die Station 5 Dillon crimp die 
 
 
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On 7/20/2017 at 0:12 AM, crispyrice said:

 

So then would it be worth it to get the 550 for brass processing and loading 308? Also what would the price difference be with all the conversions, it seems like there would be a huge price difference going the 1050 route. How long does it usually take you to change out calibers?

No, I would (and do) do it all on a 1050.

 

You asked for the most efficient way. If price is a concern then your needs may be better served with a 650 or 550 because there is a substantial difference in the price of caliber conversions. Given the volumes you mentioned and the likelihood of needing to swage primer pockets, I would still lean towards a 1050.

 

If I don't need to change between small or large primers and the dies are already setup; it takes less than 5 minutes to change calibers.

- disconnect the powder bar return rod

- loosen and raise the primer arm

- remove the ram bolt and pull the head

- loosen four screws, unthread the lock ring and remove the shell plate

- reverse to put the new caliber on

 

i tend to take the opportunity to clean and regrease everything while it's apart, so add maybe another 5 to 10 minutes max.

 

Changing the primer system over is a little more involved, maybe 20 to 30 minutes with the same cleaning and lubrication routine. The MkVII is dedicated to loading 9mm. On the second 1050 I load .308, 10mm, 300BLK, 223 and 357 magnum, so  the priming system and toolheads get swapped fairly regularly.

 

M

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On 7/20/2017 at 1:02 PM, Kaldor said:

Use a single stage if you need to resize 7.62x51 MG brass if you use that for 308.

 

That's a good suggestion. You could also continue to use your Lee turret for 308. I load a lot of oddball calibers and do load developement  on a Redding T7. The Lee will serve you well if your only shooting a couple hundred rounds a month.

 

On 7/20/2017 at 1:02 PM, Kaldor said:

 

 If you have the time, loading and shooting 2k a month can be done in 4-5 hours on a well setup progressive.  

Stopping to load cases, primers and bullets? A well setup 1050 can crank out 2k rounds in less than an hour and 10 minutes... in one pass and making more consistent ammunition because of the priming system. Yes it is more expensive upfront, however there are tangible benefits.

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On 7/21/2017 at 3:44 PM, Smeeg said:

Kaldor in 2015 swage it said they were working on one for the LNL 

dont know if they gave up on it 

 

http://swageit.com/news/current-projects-update/

 

I think they gave up on it.  I was hoping they finished it as I have a LnL.  I think part of the issue is mounting it.  They couldnt do it like a 650, because there is little to no space when the press is in the down position thus making a hard mount like the 650 version uses very difficult.  It could be a spring loaded device that threads into the primer punch hole, but I think some jamming issues could persist as the spring might not be strong enough to pull the swager from the case.  

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On 7/21/2017 at 10:55 PM, Want2BS8ed said:

 

That's a good suggestion. You could also continue to use your Lee turret for 308. I load a lot of oddball calibers and do load developement  on a Redding T7. The Lee will serve you well if your only shooting a couple hundred rounds a month.

 

Stopping to load cases, primers and bullets? A well setup 1050 can crank out 2k rounds in less than an hour and 10 minutes... in one pass and making more consistent ammunition because of the priming system. Yes it is more expensive upfront, however there are tangible benefits.

 

Yup, I first pass all my 308 which starts out as LC 7.62x51 MG brass on my Hornady single stage.  And having a turret or single around is great for oddball stuff.  I actually have 2.  My second single is a Lee C press I use just for decapping crusty range brass.  For $28 and a $8 decapping die it was hard to go wrong :)

 

I load about 400-500 an hour on my LnL with a case feeder and setting bullets by hand without pushing too hard, so 4-5 hours total for 2000.  Yes, the 1050 is the Caddy of presses, but with a 650 with a case and bullet feeder, Id say 700+ per hour is completely doable but you better be paying attention.  And for the record, Id really like to own a 1050, but I also have 2 kids that require food, lol.  I agree the priming system on the 1050 and the LnL are superior as they are case activated, but the 650 works just fine once you get into production.  More consistent is arguable, as long as the primer seating is consistent and they are below flush, they are good to go, and any press, set up correctly, should be able to do that.  I wouldnt load match ammo on a progressive, but Ive gotten some very good results on mine.

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Kaldor - Eh...kids are overrated.  Get the 1050.  LOL!  (I'm totally kidding!)

 

I couldn't afford a 650 at the time and got a great deal on the LnL, so that is what I got.  I'm honestly not sorry I got it.  I've had zero issues with it and it has worked fine for everything I have put through it.  The only thing I have done to it is added a light in the middle and on the side (Inline Fabrication, I think was the name of the company), so that I could see into the cases better,  but I think any press really could use that, so I don't see it as a bad thing.  Otherwise, I have had no complaints about it and changing calibers is extremely quick (especially if you do not have to change primer/powder sizes).

 

So, I'm glad to see someone else using the LnL because initially I kept worrying that I made a mistake and would have to move "up" to a Dillon soon and all that.  Honestly, I don't see any reason to at this point.  

 

Anyway, back to the point with the OP...most everyone covered it, so I won't go into all that again.  But I will say that don't necessarily throw out the Hornady Lock N Load Progressive as a possible option of a press to look into.  That's all I'm saying.  And your current turret can handle the 200 rounds/mo of .308/7.62 without a problem.  :-D 

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1 hour ago, crispyrice said:

I'm not going to lie i kinda forgot about the turret lol. Where would the best place to buy a Dillon or are they pretty much the same price everywhere?

The best place to get one was right here from Brian Enos, but unfortunately he's retired! When I bought my second press I ordered it from Brian with a couple of caliber conversions. He actually bothered to read through the order and made a bunch of suggestion that saved some real coin (i.e. .308 and 45 ACP use the same #1 shell plate, and you can buy just one powder check and buy separate dies and rods for each head/caliber, etc.).

 

Krakenpoop has been recommended, but I've noticed a few posts lately where folks have had problems.

 

Prices are generally the same from most. My first press came bundled with the MkVII, but the press itself was drop shipped from Grafs. If you are not looking for anything exotic and they have it in stock, Grafs has flat rate $7.95 shipping which applies. Otherwise, go direct to Dillon. I've ordered from both without issue and can recommend either without reservation.

 

Presses? They are like routers and guns, you can never have two many right? Five, 2 progressives, 2 single stage and 1 turret. Hello. My name is (insert name here) and I have a problem... :-)

 

I ran two LNL's and had them pretty well dialed in, but I couldn't get through a thousand rounds without some problem with the priming system. Saturday, I ran 4,000 rounds of 9mm with only three stoppages that all came in the first 1,000 because the MBF didn't flip a bullet which allowed a double drop the MkVII sensed. Once I cleared the dust and floatsam from the MBF (who knew you ever needed to do that!?!), everything else went along without a hitch.

 

M

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On 7/24/2017 at 3:31 PM, R1_Demon said:

Kaldor - Eh...kids are overrated.  Get the 1050.  LOL!  (I'm totally kidding!)

Kids... LOL

 

It gets easier (or not!) as they get older.

 

I'm sitting in a hotel in New Haven at the moment. Came up on the train from Virginia yesterday with my 16-year old son to drop him off for a two week program at Yale.

 

We're checking him in this afternoon and this cute young woman from Mississippi is helping him telling which table he needs to go to to get his room assignment, agenda etc. Super nice and when she's done, my son turns to me and says "well, Dad", at which point Shelby (Miss Mississippi) breaks in and tells me "oh you can go with him."

 

My son's response? "He's OK. I've got this..." ...jaw drop. I'm on the cell phone with his mother walking back to the hotel "I think he's grown-up!"

 

Straights A's, just starting his Eagle project and when he gets home - at 16 years and 3 months - his drivers license becomes valid. How did this happen?

 

Did I mention he can field strip an AR-15 AND a 1911?

 

Look on the bright side; I got the t-shirt at the bookstore! Ha ha much to his dismay!!

 

M - a proud father at the moment

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LMAO!!!!  I have a feeling Miss Mississippi had something to do with that, but I'm sure he is grown up too. :)  My only issue is my stepson could care less about firearms.  Uggghhhh...it's killing me!  LOL!  He did take a hunter safety class with his dad in Nebraska (where he lives for the school year) and that is cool.  But other than that, I don't think he has any interest in firearms at all.  I think he did that more for his dad, I guess.  I have tried all the tricks I could to get him interested.  Have asked him to go to the range with me and such to hopefully get him interested and show him cool stuff, but nope.  Doesn't even want to go.  I don't ever push him into stuff that he doesn't want to do.  I'm not like that.  So, it's all good.  Maybe later on he will get interested. :) 

 

However, you show him something about basketball or soccer and he is ALLLLLL over it.  LOL!  He is 15 and 6'3".  Towers over me.  He is going to end up somewhere around 6'5"-6'7" since his dad is 6'5".  So, I'm like, hey, get a basketball or soccer college scholarship...I'm all for free money for your college, kid.  LOL!

 

But that is cool that he can do all of that.  Oh and I'm dreading next summer because then my kid will have a license too and I'm going to have a very hard time letting him drive either of our vehicles (Tahoe or Mustang).  Soooo, I don't know how I'm going to handle that.  LOL!

 

I would sooooo do the t-shirt thing too and my kid would be dismayed as well.  That's funny!

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2 hours ago, R1_Demon said:

LMAO!!!!  I have a feeling Miss Mississippi had something to do with that, but I'm sure he is grown up too. :)  My only issue is my stepson could care less about firearms.  Uggghhhh...it's killing me!  LOL!  He did take a hunter safety class with his dad in Nebraska (where he lives for the school year) and that is cool.  But other than that, I don't think he has any interest in firearms at all.  I think he did that more for his dad, I guess.  I have tried all the tricks I could to get him interested.  Have asked him to go to the range with me and such to hopefully get him interested and show him cool stuff, but nope.  Doesn't even want to go.  I don't ever push him into stuff that he doesn't want to do.  I'm not like that.  So, it's all good.  Maybe later on he will get interested. :) 

 

However, you show him something about basketball or soccer and he is ALLLLLL over it.  LOL!  He is 15 and 6'3".  Towers over me.  He is going to end up somewhere around 6'5"-6'7" since his dad is 6'5".  So, I'm like, hey, get a basketball or soccer college scholarship...I'm all for free money for your college, kid.  LOL!

 

But that is cool that he can do all of that.  Oh and I'm dreading next summer because then my kid will have a license too and I'm going to have a very hard time letting him drive either of our vehicles (Tahoe or Mustang).  Soooo, I don't know how I'm going to handle that.  LOL!

 

I would sooooo do the t-shirt thing too and my kid would be dismayed as well.  That's funny!

Ha! Think you nailed it!!

 

...and let's not talk about cars. I had a 1999 35th anniversary Mustang GT convertible when we found out my wife was pregnant. In a bold move to avoid a mini-van, traded the car in for an Expedition. Got the last laugh though. Had Lowe's match the Mustang brochure - yes the nursery was painted Ford Chrome Yellow!!

 

Fast forward through 14 years of whining, stewing, begging, scrimping and saving and with a little hook-n-crook and sheer dumb luck - I got one of the first 50 M4 convertibles imported into the US (that's her in my avatar). Full deal too - used frequent flyer miles to do European delivery...

 

in late September...

 

in Munich...

 

during Oktoberfest. Have a friend that lives in Munich. Best - trip - ever!!

 

Car is gone now though. Hell I was getting into to much trouble with it much less what a 16-year old would do.

 

Gone 180-degrees now. Like showing up at the local range in an I3 (aka the Toaster - because if Apple ever made a toaster that's what it would look like) with Gadston plates and an NRA life sticker in the window.

 

Keep threatening to get a decal made for the back too: "Not a liberal, finds animals tasty and proudly fueled by coal!" 

 

M

 

PS on the train back to Virginia - yeah I got the shirt on! Should send a selfie to my son just to torment him a bit more.

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I'm a 650 user. Been using one exclusively since 2008. With that in mind:

 

The winning budget setup will be a 550 plus whatever side items you need to trim brass or swage military .308 brass. Cheap press, decently fast, and the fastest and most affordable caliber conversions.

 

If possible, save up and buy a 1050. I'm going to convert to one soon. Swaging, trimming, loading in bulk and in insane quantities is vastly easier than a 650. With this press you'll end up doing batches: If you shoot 200 .308s a month, simply load up 1K and enjoy having ammo onhand for the next four months.

 

The lack of warranty isn't an issue: it's designed for professionals loading thousands of rounds a day, and they're the reason it doesn't carry a warranty. You might go through $15 of springs or lost tiny locator buttons or the like per year. Maybe.

 

Swaging on a 650 requires an aftermarket attachment that voids your warranty, just so you're aware.

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