andrew1220 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) So I'm fairly new to USPSA (6th match last weekend and finally classified B in SS) and I had a question about the 99-10 classifier I shot last weekend. Time was 8.53 seconds. HF was 5.6272. 22nd out of 86 shooters for that stage. On each of the 6 targets, I had 1 hit at the center-top A zone and 1 hit at the bottom-center C zone. Very consistent but I'm wondering if this is indicator of me anticipating recoil, breaking the wrist up, jerking the trigger etc?? Thoughts? FWIW, I'm shooting a DW Pointman 9, reloads are 147 gr blue bullets over 3 gr N320 which are about 132ish PF, and 11# recoil spring. Some stages (especially the plate racks!) I find myself trying to shoot too fast and I end up missing A LOT. I feel like my sight picture is good enough but it's possible I'm slapping the trigger or pulling the trigger before my sight picture is aligned. I also struggle with calming my nerves when I get up and load/make ready. Probably not much I can do about that until I have hundreds of matches under my belt. Anyway, just thought I'd see if you more experienced shooters have advice for a new USPSA shooter. Thanks! Edited July 14, 2017 by andrew1220 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Could be the wrong recoil spring strength. Have a friend watch you do "double taps" and let you know where the second shot hits in relation to the first. If the 2nd round is lower the spring is too strong and if the 2nd round is higher then the spring is too weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew1220 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 Good point. I originally had a 10# spring but noticed some peening on the impact abutment inside the frame which I thought was due to a light spring, so I bumped it to a 11# Though it could have just been a worn spring not necessarily the wrong weight.... Maybe I could record myself and the targets to see where my shots are hitting when I do double taps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) Sounds like you are mashing the crap out of the trigger and pulling the shot low. What you described also sounds like your are "Double Tapping" instead of treating each shot as a separate event. If you decide to shoot and simply mash the trigger twice in the general direction of the target then you will usually have crappy second hits. If you are not seeing the sights on the second shot, then that is your number one problem to fix. Abandon the concept of a "Double Tap". There are instead two individual shots that happen in rapid succession. Edited July 14, 2017 by CHA-LEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieselvrr Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Subbed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew1220 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 32 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said: Sounds like you are mashing the crap out of the trigger and pulling the shot low. What you described also sounds like your are "Double Tapping" instead of treating each shot as a separate event. If you decide to shoot and simply mash the twice in the general direction of the target then you will usually have crappy second hits. If you are not seeing the sights on the second shot, then that is your number one problem to fix. Abandon the concept of a "Double Tap". There are instead two individual shots that happen in rapid succession. That's certainly possible. I try to make sure I see my sights before every trigger pull but I think sometimes I get so anxious on the clock and get sloppy trying to go fast... Thanks for the feedback. Keep it coming guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selecw Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Grip the gun harder. That will reduce the effect of a bad trigger pull. And work on the trigger pull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew1220 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 34 minutes ago, selecw said: Grip the gun harder. That will reduce the effect of a bad trigger pull. And work on the trigger pull Lol will do!.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 this is a pretty common problem, and it's one I was struggling with a couple months ago when trying to shoot fast. recoil springs and loads make some difference, but the bottom line is you are not aware of where the gun is pointed when the 2nd shot goes off. You may be seeing the sights come back down, but as you start to pull the trigger you are kind of tuning out, and the gun is still moving, so when the shot breaks, it hits low. I advise spending some time doing 4 or 6 shot drills and trying to keep them in a space the size of the head. Pay very close attention to where the sights are. figure out how fast you can shoot while getting the sights to stop completely, so that you have a nice tight group in a head-sized spot at 10 yards. Try to go slightly faster than that. watch what happens. Hopefully you will start to get a better idea of how much you need to see and how you need to grip the gun in order to get 2 A's most of the time. I have been mostly practicing with partial targets in dryfire and live fire the last few months. this has really been helping with my awareness of the sights and my grip, and prevents me from getting lazy and just double-tapping. Every shot is an aimed shot, even if some of the close ones aren't aimed very carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew1220 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 50 minutes ago, motosapiens said: this is a pretty common problem, and it's one I was struggling with a couple months ago when trying to shoot fast. recoil springs and loads make some difference, but the bottom line is you are not aware of where the gun is pointed when the 2nd shot goes off. You may be seeing the sights come back down, but as you start to pull the trigger you are kind of tuning out, and the gun is still moving, so when the shot breaks, it hits low. I think this is what I'm doing. There were a couple stages where I took 3 really fast shots just to hit a steel popper and my buddy was like "damn that was fast but did you even see your sights?" I "thought" I had my sights aligned but I most likely didn't. That and I could have been slapping the trigger.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete627 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I do the same thing but don't have to worry about making "B" too soon (congratulations on a great start). Anyhow ... my first shot is usually at the lower center of the A box and my second directly below it in D city. I noticed pretty quickly that I was mentally centering my shots on the center of the body of the target (USPSA metric) ... and if you measure you will see that the center of the bottom 24 inches (ignoring the head) you are only an inch above the bottom of the A zone. It doesn't take much to pull the second shot into a C or worse. I figured at least while I'm working on the problem I can score a bit higher if I remember to aim higher on the body of the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew1220 Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 16 hours ago, pete627 said: I do the same thing but don't have to worry about making "B" too soon (congratulations on a great start). Anyhow ... my first shot is usually at the lower center of the A box and my second directly below it in D city. I noticed pretty quickly that I was mentally centering my shots on the center of the body of the target (USPSA metric) ... and if you measure you will see that the center of the bottom 24 inches (ignoring the head) you are only an inch above the bottom of the A zone. It doesn't take much to pull the second shot into a C or worse. I figured at least while I'm working on the problem I can score a bit higher if I remember to aim higher on the body of the target. Haha good strategy I suppose ;-) I need to record myself or carefully watch my shots since I don't know if my first shot is high (A zone) or low (C zone). I suspect the first shot is A then I pull into C zone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Don't aim for the A Zone or "higher on the body of the target" - that's "blasting at brown". Aim at specific point on the target, as small as you can focus on. I like to pick a paster in upper A Zone. Aim Small, Miss Small. Having said that I have been jerking the snot out of my second shot lately trying to convert to a striker fired gun.... I really need to work on that second shot sight picture, and better trigger control. Also playing with springs..... sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieselvrr Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 35 minutes ago, sfinney said: Aim Small, Miss Small. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al23 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Same problem here, good advise, thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corny Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I recently switched to a STI DVC Limited and have the same problem. Changing to a 9 pound recoil spring and paying more attention to my trigger pull and grip. I "should" be able to solve the problem. We will see......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
next Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Have you tried video taping yourself during practice? I'd be willing to be the A's are all your first shots and the C's are your second shot. Why this is happening is you are pushing the gun down to fight recoil and that is making it nose dive after it cycles. Give the video a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 On 7/14/2017 at 4:02 PM, andrew1220 said: I "thought" I had my sights aligned but I most likely didn't. That and I definitely was slapping the trigger.... Fixed! We’ve all been there and done that: we know why your second hit is going wild because we did the same thing. Adding 1/10th of a second between shots will feel like an eternity, but would be a huge benefit to you in terms of how many points you’re racking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Try watching TGO on Action Targets YouTube--10 shots 3 second par time. It will explain a lot with great visuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furrly Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Great Vid, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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