only1asterisk Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 About a year ago I decided I would get with the times and pick up a full-sized duty guns for local matches and informal competition. I bought a P320 to try and the first time out I shot so badly I thought I was having a stroke until I put a magazine through my STI on paper. The trigger wasn't terrible in the SIG and other people shoot it reasonably well, but not me. So I shot everything I could lay hands on and tried endless variations of grip and trigger finger placement and manage to occasionally shoot half well. It doesn't help that I have ridiculously oversized hands and could easily pull a trigger where some pistol's trigger guards are located. No handgun is comfortable to me. The problem seems to be that the grip I am forced to take makes my grip inconsistent and bullet impact erratic. My best results come by maintaining a death grip despite tremors that disrupt my sight alignment. The consistent grip pressure seems to be critical in this type of gun. Further, I find that the lighter constructed and more flexible a plastic frame is, the worse I am apt to shoot it. The aforementioned SIG being among chief offenders. I am beginning to to think that I would be better off sticking with my larger frame revolvers and 1911's that minimize my awkward grip, trigger control faults and bad habits. I would to, as it would save much time, money and frustation. On the other hand, I think I would be a better shooter overall if I could master the art of combat tupperware. In addition, I have a secondary goal of using a moden, size effective pistol as a carry gun. I realize that most shooters these days transition the other directions and (what a revelation that must be) and there can't be too many dinosaurs like me left, but I'd be grateful for any advice that might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer002 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 If it doesn't fit you for competition, there's no reason to force it. If you haven't given it the reasonable amount of time in dry/live fire, you may still not be sure whether it fits or not. Honestly, coming from high end STI's and 1911's, I would find it unlikely you would ever be happy with plastic. As far as trigger, Grayguns does amazing work with those guns. Carry is a completely different issue, and the main reason I decided to weigh in. A fighting pistol and a competition pistol have little to nothing in common. I stick with the plastic striker fired guns for carry. The trigger does not matter and I would argue SHOULD be heavier. Accuracy is not the focal point of a fighting pistol (Although, of course, it should be practiced). Most confrontations are very close proximity and rarely lack the use of a good "sight picture", grip, or stance. A carry gun really boils down to two things - high capacity and absolutely, positively, no matter what (dirty, wet, blood soaked, upside down, having just been used as a bludgeon, etc, etc, etc), will go bang with every trigger pull. So far as I hear, an unfiddled with 320 serves that purpose. I know a Glock does. But these are just two examples. Using a carry gun in competition to improve personal use is absolutely beneficial, just leave the focal point at that and not chasing scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 3 hours ago, only1asterisk said: the grip I am forced to take makes my grip inconsistent I would be better off sticking with my larger frame revolvers and 1911's that minimize my awkward grip, trigger control faults and bad habits. As Hammer mentioned, you may never be happy with plastic. BUT, I did not see the word "DRY FIRE" in your posting .... ???? Not sure why you cannot get a good grip, with your weak hand, on the gun. You don't want to squeeze extra hard, until the gun vibrates, with your strong hand. Current thinking is that you hold the gun like a hammer, and SQUEEZE the bejabber out of it with your weak hand. I would think that dry firing that technique for 15 minutes/day for a few months, and you'd be much happier with your plastic gun. You also didn't mention how much worse your groups are with the plastic guns? Are you talking about 1" groups at 20 yards with your 1911, and a 3" group with plastic? You should be able to live with that for action sports. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeweyH Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Try a large frame Glock. Converting a 10mm Glock to 40 for limited is pretty simple also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
only1asterisk Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 I have a Glock 21 that is about the best fit. I've considered adding a 20 slide with .40 barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa-XD45 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 29 minutes ago, only1asterisk said: I have a Glock 21 that is about the best fit. I've considered adding a 20 slide with .40 barrel. Watch this 4 minute video and search for others by Mr Leatham. A proper grip is a proper grip regardless of which gun you use. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNNlb7QjfGI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
only1asterisk Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 My dry fire is more like 10 minutes every other day. I'd be happy to get 3" groups at 15 yards with a duty guns. With my fingertip on the trigger, he gun twist into my strong hand under recoil. I can reduce it by stuffing my trigger finger into the trigger guard and pulling trigger with the middle pad of my trigger finger, but this bring it's own problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, only1asterisk said: the gun twists into my strong hand under recoil. Sounds, to me, like NOT enough pressure with weak hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
only1asterisk Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Hi-Power Jack said: Sounds, to me, like NOT enough pressure with weak hand. I'm not saying it isn't, but for me to contort my hand to grip like that my strong hands only really touches the grip on the backstrap, frontstrap and a bit at the heel. This is best case scenario. Using the Glock as an example I can stick my finger between my hand and the grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
only1asterisk Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said: Sounds, to me, like NOT enough pressure with weak hand. Maybe I should have said the butt twist into my weak side hand. The muzzle goes toward my weak side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iaddrummer Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I love my glock 34 and hated glock before this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieselvrr Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Love my Glocks, simple and effective Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay63 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I have a friend that would shoot dead on and was very fast with metal guns. His duty gun was a glock and he spent years trying to figure out how to shoot it. He could not shoot it well.One of his buddies told him to only apply strong hand grip pressure front to back. Weak hand only side to side. Once he figured that out he now shoots it great. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer002 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 On 7/13/2017 at 1:24 PM, only1asterisk said: Maybe I should have said the butt twist into my weak side hand. The muzzle goes toward my weak side. This gets said a lot dismissively in forums and what not, but I will sincerely say it here - I think before you get any more caught up in this gun or that, get some formal training. Everything you have mentioned are things good training will absolutely, positively address. Big hands, little hands, unless we are talking extreme (like 1% type stuff), it doesn't matter. I think you need to be shown a proper grip and good trigger control. I don't mean in any way to belittle, but each of your posts are what new or untrained shooters experience - thinking hands too small/large, where to put finger on trigger, etc. Just because you may have feelings of personal success with an STI or other high end gun, doesn't mean a lot. These guns can hide or mask unlearned fundamentals with their weight, ergonomics, and light trigger pulls. From what I read in this thread, the real situation sounds like you started shooting guns that never forced you to have to learn the basics and now going to what I would call a "normal" gun, you are struggling. I go back to basics at least once a year and love getting training that emphasizes again the fundamentals cause its easy to stray away from them. Seek out a training program. Physically work with someone. I think this is your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
only1asterisk Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 I can't argue that some coaching would be beneficial. No doubt that heavier guns with better triggers help minimize shooter errors, but they do that for everyone. Likewise, everyone has an alliby they like to use. I know that the guns being hard to shoot because it doesn't fit well is pretty common excuse, but the only place my hands would be normal would be the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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