223 brass has crimp/indents on mouth of case

[mbabin]

I purchased about 1000 rounds of once fired, cleaned, brass online a few months ago and just got around to reloading some of them.

They all appear to have some kind of crimping or indents on the mouth.  I have never seen this before.  Maybe from a puller or something? Mixed head stamps.

 

But they all seem to be non usable because it pushes out burs,for the lack of a better word, after the sizing die.  I currently use a Lee sizer, but I have tried my Dillon die as well with same results.

I can get all the way through the reloading process but the necks all feel like there is a rough lip remaining.  They do still properly fit in a case gauge.

I first couldn't figure out what the cause was and thought it was a die issue.  But after swapping out everything and then running different brass through they all came out fine, so its definitely the brass.  I even tried crimping down way to much to see if it smooths out but they don't. Using a chamfer didn't make a difference either.  The pic makes it look like there is lip on the mouth but it feels smooth to the neck.

I use a Dillon 650 if it matters.  Any thoughts of how to save the brass?

 

[Beef15]

Pretty standard crimp, been seeing it more recently. Lee FCD will leave almost the same marks, only four though, less joints in the collet.

Chamfer/deburring tool will clean it up well enough.

I know nothing of case gauging, but they'll chamber and fire just fine with proper prep.

[mbabin]

Interesting that it would be so dramatic on factory crimps.

I still have to find out why my end product is feeling so roughed up.

[anachronism]

Those are standard military style collet crimps. BTW, are you trimming your brass? A lot of the original crimp gets shaved off when I trim cases the first time. On 223/5.56, case length is super critical.

[bodybag0]

On 7/16/2017 at 4:41 PM, anachronism said:

Those are standard military style collet crimps. BTW, are you trimming your brass? A lot of the original crimp gets shaved off when I trim cases the first time. On 223/5.56, case length is super critical.

 

+1

[mbabin]

The brass that tested was acceptable in length according to my case gauge.

I do trim when they get to long but these seem to be in range.  But I will continue to keep a lookout for the length.

[glc]

On ‎7‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 10:16 AM, mbabin said:

The brass that tested was acceptable in length according to my case gauge.

I do trim when they get to long but these seem to be in range.  But I will continue to keep a lookout for the length.

I didn't see this thread until today.

I also bought (1,000) once fired cases with a collet crimp. I didn't know they were collet crimped until I received them. Personally, I don't care for that type of crimp for reloading but I had to deal with it. Cases are Winchester 5.56. I'm assuming your acceptable length is longer than 1.750? I'm asking because every single case needed trimmed. Yes, the collet crimp isn't fun to deal with, but it is doable. As posted, most of the crimp will get trimmed away from the longer cases. But there are ones that don't need a lot of material removed, so pretty much all of the crimp is still there. The finished rounds do not look or "feel" as nice as taper crimped rounds, but they are perfectly fine. My seating/crimp die is just a standard Redding steel die. You really can't tell from the pic, but they feel fairly smooth at the cannelure.

 

 

[dmshozer1]

On 7/16/2017 at 5:41 PM, anachronism said:

Those are standard military style collet crimps. BTW, are you trimming your brass? A lot of the original crimp gets shaved off when I trim cases the first time. On 223/5.56, case length is super critical.

Why is trimming super critical?

[Sarge]

4 minutes ago, dmshozer1 said:

Why is trimming super critical?

So the bolt will close all the way?

[dmshozer1]

2 minutes ago, Sarge said:

So the bolt will close all the way?

Any other reasons?

[mbabin]

besides proper fitting in to the chamber, consistency for bullet seating is a major reason to trim.

[RiggerJJ]

6 hours ago, dmshozer1 said:

Why is trimming super critical?

 

Consistent ammo that is accurate is the best reason, along with if necks get too long the bolt won't close...Different neck tensions (which will happen if you don't trim) will greatly affect accuracy.

jj

[dmshozer1]

1 hour ago, RiggerJJ said:

 

Consistent ammo that is accurate is the best reason, along with if necks get too long the bolt won't close...Different neck tensions (which will happen if you don't trim) will greatly affect accuracy.

jj

Got it

[dmshozer1]

16 hours ago, dmshozer1 said:

Got it

I respect the answers about why it is "super critical" to trim, but.

I and many others I know that shoot 3 gun do not trim or crimp 223's

I agree that if you don't you can get in trouble. Been loading for 3 gun

for at least 10 years. Thousands of rounds. In all that time I have had two malfunctions.

Bullets set back in the case. Both happened this year.

I load mostly pick up LC brass. Size on a single stage, finish on a Dillon 550. 26 grs of H335,

Nosler bullets, any primer, ream the case mouth for long range. Same for Hoser stuff except less powder,

Hornady bulk 55's and I do not bother reaming. I do case gauge but I don't pay to much attention to the bottom. Just the top to make sure the rim is below the top of the gauge. That's it. These loads have been down at least six or more different

barrels. Most were at or under moa out to 400. Hozer good enough out to 100.

I guess myself and many others that do not trim are getting away with it.

Super critical, no. Important, yes.  Necessary, in my experience, no.

Just my opinion. Yours may differ and that is okay.

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, dmshozer1 said:

I respect the answers about why it is "super critical" to trim, but.

I and many others I know that shoot 3 gun do not trim or crimp 223's

I agree that if you don't you can get in trouble. Been loading for 3 gun

for at least 10 years. Thousands of rounds. In all that time I have had two malfunctions.

Bullets set back in the case. Both happened this year.

I load mostly pick up LC brass. Size on a single stage, finish on a Dillon 550. 26 grs of H335,

Nosler bullets, any primer, ream the case mouth for long range. Same for Hoser stuff except less powder,

Hornady bulk 55's and I do not bother reaming. I do case gauge but I don't pay to much attention to the bottom. Just the top to make sure the rim is below the top of the gauge. That's it. These loads have been down at least six or more different

barrels. Most were at or under moa out to 400. Hozer good enough out to 100.

I guess myself and many others that do not trim are getting away with it.

Super critical, no. Important, yes.  Necessary, in my experience, no.

Just my opinion. Yours may differ and that is okay.

Yep, you are so right. You are getting away with it.

[dmshozer1]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

Yep, you are so right. You are getting away with it.

That's about the only thing I get away with Sarge!

[Dan Sierpina]

6 hours ago, dmshozer1 said:

That's about the only thing I get away with Sarge!

Dave,

      My take is slightly different on the case length. I have had long cases "bottom out" in the seating die, causing the shoulder to mushroom, then, jam into the chamber. Most reamers are ground to allow some slop between the maximum length for the brass and the minimum to the end of the neck.  Someone makes inserts that you trim the case back, a lot, then use the insert that is neck diameter, to find the maximum case length for the particular reamer that cut that chamber. 

I do run my brass through a Gracey trimmer, just to reduce the chance of malfunctions. 

Using quality bullets will most likely yield better results than being obsessed with trimming brass that was picked up at a range, and if it's surplus brass, maybe run through a SAW.

 

[TonytheTiger]

For my hoser ammo I set my calipers at 1.765" and as I size cases one of my kids runs them through the calipers. Anything that fits goes in the tumbler, anything that doesn't gets trimmed. I might trim 5 in 100 cases. I've been doing it this way since late last year, so around 8k rounds. Shoots MOA-ish with Hornady 55's, mixed brass and CCI450's, no other brass prep and no ammo related malfunctions to date.

[dmshozer1]

3 hours ago, TonytheTiger said:

For my hoser ammo I set my calipers at 1.765" and as I size cases one of my kids runs them through the calipers. Anything that fits goes in the tumbler, anything that doesn't gets trimmed. I might trim 5 in 100 cases. I've been doing it this way since late last year, so around 8k rounds. Shoots MOA-ish with Hornady 55's, mixed brass and CCI450's, no other brass prep and no ammo related malfunctions to date.

Tony, Were you having malfunctions and that led to to start trimming?

[TonytheTiger]

Nope, when I started reloading I was trimming every case to 1.75". At some point I realized that was way more work than necessary to launch a bullet at a huge target inside 200 yards. Accuracy and function have not measurably changed since I dropped the trim everything process.

[dmshozer1]

8 hours ago, TonytheTiger said:

Nope, when I started reloading I was trimming every case to 1.75". At some point I realized that was way more work than necessary to launch a bullet at a huge target inside 200 yards. Accuracy and function have not measurably changed since I dropped the trim everything process.

That is why I decided to not bother trimming,

When I first started to reload I found after measuring all my cases that the majority were good to go.

I loaded the really long ones and they worked as well as the in spec ones so I decided to drop the trim part of the process.

Apparently with the luck I have I am not going to bother trimming.

Knock on wood!