How were the Peak Times established?

[LeviSS]

How did they come up with the Peak Times for the stages?

[ZackJones]

The original ones were created by Phil Strater but I don't know exactly how he came up with them. I review them now by importing match results which allow me to see all times for all stages in those divisions that were shot at the match. I import all tier II and III match data that I can get my hands on to help with the analysis I do.

 

[LeviSS]

I didn't know if they were based on times established by top shooters, like USPSA high hit factor, or if they were kinda arbitrary.

 

Looking at scores from WSSC, it appears that the peak times are bested quite often... sometimes substantially.

[jkrispies]

43 minutes ago, LeviSS said:

I didn't know if they were based on times established by top shooters, like USPSA high hit factor, or if they were kinda arbitrary.

 

Looking at scores from WSSC, it appears that the peak times are bested quite often... sometimes substantially.

 

Yes, but bear in mind that the folks who are winning the WSSC represent the best 1 percent (or less) of this sport, so I would fully expect them to beat the peak times.  They are, after all, the folks setting the peak times.  To put it in perspective, if the winner of the 2017 WSSC set the 100% mark, and you need 95% to make GM, or even an 85% of that for M, then that means... well.. BJ, Max, and KC would be the only three GM's in SCSA out of the thousands of folks shooting Steel Challenge month in and month out,  Literally!  Even more frightening, the #6 shooter at the last WSSC wouldn't have even made Master.  Do the math:

 

OPEN

1. 76.63

2. 76.79

3. 77.88

4. 84.87

5. 87.00

6. 90.74

 

By that same token, I can also point out other "oddities" that go the other way.  For instance, I was on Trenton Mitsuoka's squad and watched him set the World Record in Rimfire Rifle Optic this year.  On Outer Limits he scored a 12.61 overall.  FYI, it takes a 12.60 on that stage to make a GM-level time.  So, yeah, the guy set a World Record with an M-level performance on the sport's premiere stage.  (Hint, hint, Zack?  Making the OL peak a 13 wouldn't kill ya, would it???  Haha, JK!!!!  But not really...)

 

Anyway, while I don't think the current Peak Times are perfect, and have said so in the past, NOBODY will ever be happy with them, period.  That's what you get for making a decision and sticking to it.  My nod to Zack Jones and Phil Strader is:  thanks, and please keep up the good work!

 

My two cents on the current peak times is this:  While I have my own minor issues with it, I do think that the current peak times do strike a good balance of setting the bar high yet attainable and THAT is the ideal.  Honestly, if the only way to make GM is to turn shooting into your full-time job, then that will discourage a lot of beginners from giving it the ol' college try to begin with, and that's the last thing SCSA should do.  I mean, seriously, if the guy who places #6 at the World Championships gets a slap on the back and congractuated for putting up a solid "A Performance," then my heart would break for him!!!!

[ZackJones]

23 hours ago, LeviSS said:

I didn't know if they were based on times established by top shooters, like USPSA high hit factor, or if they were kinda arbitrary.

 

Looking at scores from WSSC, it appears that the peak times are bested quite often... sometimes substantially.

 

The first set of PSTs were but going forward I'm using data from all tier II and III matches so your average joe is considered along with the top guys/gals.

 

[LeviSS]

16 hours ago, ZackJones said:

 

The first set of PSTs were but going forward I'm using data from all tier II and III matches so your average joe is considered along with the top guys/gals.

That makes me feel good.  I'm 1.38% from Master in RFPI (the only division I've shot so far).

 

I'm sure it's different for every division, but I'm curious if you are M or GM, what % you are of all SC shooters.  I'm guessing if you are a GM, there's less than 5% of SC shooters that are GMs.

Edited July 13, 2017 by LeviSS

[jkrispies]

6 hours ago, LeviSS said:

I'm sure it's different for every division, but I'm curious if you are M or GM, what % you are of all SC shooters.  I'm guessing if you are a GM, there's less than 5% of SC shooters that are GMs.

 

I think that would be very interesting data to investigate as well (of course, I'm kind of a nerd like that), and I agree that it would have to be run seperately per division.  If you run it as an overall then you'll get some confusing numbers from single copetitiors who hold multiple classifcations.  

[Scootertheshooter]

 
Yes, but bear in mind that the folks who are winning the WSSC represent the best 1 percent (or less) of this sport, so I would fully expect them to beat the peak times.  They are, after all, the folks setting the peak times.  To put it in perspective, if the winner of the 2017 WSSC set the 100% mark, and you need 95% to make GM, or even an 85% of that for M, then that means... well.. BJ, Max, and KC would be the only three GM's in SCSA out of the thousands of folks shooting Steel Challenge month in and month out,  Literally!  Even more frightening, the #6 shooter at the last WSSC wouldn't have even made Master.  Do the math:
 
OPEN
1. 76.63
2. 76.79
3. 77.88
4. 84.87
5. 87.00
6. 90.74
  By that same token, I can also point out other "oddities" that go the other way.  For instance, I was on Trenton Mitsuoka's squad and watched him set the World Record in Rimfire Rifle Optic this year.  On Outer Limits he scored a 12.61 overall.  FYI, it takes a 12.60 on that stage to make a GM-level time.  So, yeah, the guy set a World Record with an M-level performance on the sport's premiere stage.  (Hint, hint, Zack?  Making the OL peak a 13 wouldn't kill ya, would it???  Haha, JK!!!!  But not really...)   Anyway, while I don't think the current Peak Times are perfect, and have said so in the past, NOBODY will ever be happy with them, period.  That's what you get for making a decision and sticking to it.  My nod to Zack Jones and Phil Strader is:  thanks, and please keep up the good work!   My two cents on the current peak times is this:  While I have my own minor issues with it, I do think that the current peak times do strike a good balance of setting the bar high yet attainable and THAT is the ideal.  Honestly, if the only way to make GM is to turn shooting into your full-time job, then that will discourage a lot of beginners from giving it the ol' college try to begin with, and that's the last thing SCSA should do.  I mean, seriously, if the guy who places #6 at the World Championships gets a slap on the back and congractuated for putting up a solid "A Performance," then my heart would break for him!!!!

Is that world record Trenton set for Jr? I was at the steel nationals and there must have be 10-15 shooters under that time . I'm not taking anything away from Trenton because he's an awesome shooter.

[jkrispies]

1 hour ago, Scootertheshooter said:

Is that world record Trenton set for Jr? I was at the steel nationals and there must have be 10-15 shooters under that time . I'm not taking anything away from Trenton because he's an awesome shooter.

70.48 total.

[ZackJones]

13 hours ago, jkrispies said:

I think that would be very interesting data to investigate as well (of course, I'm kind of a nerd like that), and I agree that it would have to be run separately per division.  If you run it as an overall then you'll get some confusing numbers from single competitors who hold multiple classifications.  

 

I don't have the most current data in front of me but here's some numbers based on last June 2017 data. We just passed one year from our classification baseline. I'm working on an article for FrontSight that will have all kinds of information about the classification growth over the last year.  This is a combination of all divisions:

 

We have a total of 7920 classifications that aren't U or X (this includes one individual being classified in multiple divisions)

GM - 287 (4%)

M - 426 (5%)

A - 799 (10%)

B - 2261 (29%)

C - 3149 (40%)

D - 998 (13%)

 

We have one 6-division GM - KC Eusebio

We have three 5-Division GM's: Dave Sevigny, BJ Norris, and Steve Foster.

 

 

 

[jkrispies]

13 hours ago, ZackJones said:

We have a total of 7920 classifications that aren't U or X (this includes one individual being classified in multiple divisions)

GM - 287 (4%)

M - 426 (5%)

A - 799 (10%)

B - 2261 (29%)

C - 3149 (40%)

D - 998 (13%)

 

Overall, it looks pretty appropriate to me.