STI DVC Open gun ejection advice needed 9mm Major

[Shmella]

52 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

 

 

 

Make sure it gets picked up off the inside of the tunnel to hold the brass.  Also avoid closing the slide on a round in the chamber which will really speed up loss of extractor tension.

What do you mean by this?

 

and I didnt know that would be bad for the extractor. Thanks, I probably dropped the slide on an round in the chamber 20-30 times over the weekend when hand cycling some rounds to see what the ejection looked like.

[Hupperware]

 
1. Nope
2. Nope
3. Eh, load right.
4. Yes, limited in comparison but plenty of good options available.
5. Nope
6. Nope
 
Everyone is allowed their opinion, and that's cool.  But as blanket statements this is just spreading bad information for those doing their research.  Please, shoot what you like, but be reasonable enough to understand how a gun runs and shoots is all about the build, fit, tune, and loading practices and mostly irrelevant of chamber dimensions.

Hmmm

Did you read who's blog that this was from?

I'm sure you've got just as many, probably more, National Championships as Nils, so your opinion matters most.

"load right" - the guy loads ammo for a living

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: There are lots of guys shooting 9mm major with great success. We have a couple around here that shoot 9mm as well as 38SC. Their guns run just great. Thanks, Eric

[Eclipse]

I tried all of the fixes mentioned here and never could get my 9mm major open gun to run reliably, after sitting down and having a conversion with Nils I put and RTS2 on my gun and it has run 100% ever since. I know Nils is only the world champion in standard division but he knows a little bit about open guns too.

[rr4406pak]

On 7/5/2017 at 6:43 PM, mickd1 said:

can i ask did you run it in? use full loads and just shoot it for around 500 rounds then start to play with it

 

I'm at 482 rounds down the pipe right now.

 

From the responses it looks like I should feel lucky this gun runs major reliably.

[lcs]

Upright c-more mounts on 9 major guns, REQUIRE a non-AFTEC extractor be tuned almost to perfection.  You have changed how the gun is tuned by running less than major loads. The brass is hitting the bottom of the c-more and bouncing back in the chamber.  You could have a bad mag spring, but I'm betting more on the extractor/c-more mount configuration with less than major loads.  

 

90 degree mounts and AFTEC extractors virtually eliminate this problem.  You never have to tune an AFTEC, it starts erratic ejection, change the two little springs.  I have 20-30K on my 9 (with AFTEC), running 100%.   You can also run minor loads with different recoil springs and not see ejection problems.

 

 

[cecil]

Look at the bottom of your scope mount just over where the brass ejects... if there are marks where brass is hitting the underside of the scope mount .. ditch the scope mount and put a sideways mount on your pistol... 

[theWacoKid]

22 hours ago, Shmella said:

What do you mean by this?

 

and I didnt know that would be bad for the extractor. Thanks, I probably dropped the slide on an round in the chamber 20-30 times over the weekend when hand cycling some rounds to see what the ejection looked like.

 

Without brass in the gun the inward travel of the claw is limited to where the extractor bottoms out in the tunnel.  If brass does not lift the extractor off the tunnel you will not be pinning the brass solidly and consistently.  Adding tension (new springs, bending a traditional) will do nothing to help you until there is sufficient travel available to make use of the tension on the brass.  Just mark up the extractor and remove needed material to get any needed travel.

[andersonj55126]

Best advice is to ditch the upright cmore for 9mm with random brass.  If you don't want to do that you may consider buying once fired sorted brass and stick with the same brand and then tune the ejector.

[Banacek]

Start with the Aftec extractor. Fixed my problems. I do not like the other cmore mount option.

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[Dwampler22]

Micro dot or 90degree is the only option for a open gun not running 38sc or 38tj. 

Asking for problems if you run 9 with the traditional cmore mount. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 0:09 PM, rr4406pak said:

 

I'm at 482 rounds down the pipe right now.

 

From the responses it looks like I should feel lucky this gun runs major reliably.

 

I have two (2) TruBor's in 9mm major - Both run 100% reliably.

 

Unless, the springs in the gun or mag need replacement.

 

Both guns have C-More's upright.

 

Number of smiths have told me to switch to .38 Super or a 90 Degree

C-More mount when I had a month of non-feeding.   The problem

was that the springs in the mag and / or gun needed replacement.     

[ar15rick]

i know you said you are running 7 and 8 lb springs, but what brand of springs are you running?  I have an open gun that I can run major and minor with an 8lb ISMI spring.  one time I put an 8lb Wolf spring and it did not want to work with minor.  I didn't know why it wasn't working anymore.  I figured the spring is new and has a lot of tension.  I had to up my minor load a little to make it work.  After I spoke to a friend of mine on it, he asked me what recoil spring I had.  I told him the Wolf and he told me to change it to ISMI.  He claimed the Wolf are a little longer and have more tension.  So I did the change and everything worked as normal.  Just something you can try and see if it works.  I know changing the mount will work as well.

[accu9]

The conversation and ubiquitous threads about a factory DVC Open chambered in either 9mm or .38 reliably running any type of ammo is redundant. Major PF, minor PF, commercial or reloads will all yield similar results with few exceptions without significant tuning from a competent 'smith. I understand that many were/ are duped by DVC's (myself included) into believing you have come across a bargain open gun that is competition ready out of the box.  Do your self a favor and send it to someone whom has an iota of knowledge about getting a gun to run and your problems will be solved. 

[mickd1]

my 38sc runs perfect from the box even the mags 

[accu9]

3 minutes ago, mickd1 said:

my 38sc runs perfect from the box even the mags 

You sir, are an outlier. I would imagine (< 50-100)  of 3,000+ will chime in whom received a viable DVC Open Gun that did not have significant issues necessitating a trip back to STI to fix teething issues that should have been resolved after the first 5 round test fire in STI's factory.  

[Hi-Power Jack]

56 minutes ago, accu9 said:

 50-100  of 3,000+ will chime in who received a viable DVC Open Gun that did not have significant issues 

 

 

Not arguing, but a LOT of issues are related to mags and ammo, lube and break-in, I would imagine     

[Gooldylocks]

11 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

 

Not arguing, but a LOT of issues are related to mags and ammo, lube and break-in, I would imagine     

But many issues are not. There are WAY too many guns that aren't fit correctly, grossly out of spec, have horrible issues with the trigger groups, or require lots of parts changes to get them to run. 

[mickd1]

1 hour ago, accu9 said:

You sir, are an outlier. I would imagine (< 50-100)  of 3,000+ will chime in whom received a viable DVC Open Gun that did not have significant issues necessitating a trip back to STI to fix teething issues that should have been resolved after the first 5 round test fire in STI's factory.  

you have got one big mouth on you sir, ive had the trubor and the grandmaster and yes i did need some work on them to run but i can say 100% this gun has worked from the box,loads of oil and broke it in with around 600 rounds,now in that 600 i did have a ftf a few times but didn't do any thing about it,just run the gun in and then if your having a problem then see to it, so meny play with the gun too early. run it in first

[Gooldylocks]

Easier to run the gun and get it broken in if magazines will actually go in and out of the grip, if it will eject more than 60% of the time, if the slide didn't have chunks of steel missing, if the ejector was tuned so it wasn't dragging on the slide enough for it to get jammed open and need beaten shut, and if it doesn't have hammer follow issues.


Point is, clearly STI didn't even test fire this gun, let alone the number of times they claim to. And he isn't alone in his experience, there are many people that have issues with factory STIs.

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[TeedOff]

I'm getting in on this late so sorry if this was already solved. I got a DVC open last fall and had a ton of problems including the sort of failure to eject you show in the original pictures. I ended up sending the gun to sti and they replaced the ejector (which was bent and interfering with the slide) and the extractor (which they said was "out of spec"). Whatever the case, the gun has been 100% since I got it back. I spoke directly with the gunsmith who worked on it who said he ran 6 full mags thru without failure as the test procedure. STI paid shipping both ways. Turnaround was about 3 weeks.

 

Edit: Point begin...call them. They will fix it at no cost and do it quickly. Call them!

 

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[Whoops!]

Let me clear up the thread a little.

 

While the extractor and mag tension may contribute to these jams depending on how the gun is setup, the main culprit is the ejector.  The brass is ejecting erratically and sometimes not clearing the scope mount prior to getting outside the range of motion of the slide.

 

It is usually an easy fix.  File the front of the ejector at an angle to where it consistently ejects the brass  to about the 2:30 position when viewed from behind the gun.  This is usually with the angle coming to a point on the face of the ejector anywhere from 1/3 of the way to 1/2 way down the face of the stock ejector.

 

A side mounted scope mount will mostly fix the issue.  However, even with that you may still have one brass that doesn't clear the slide every 300 - 500 rounds.  It's a great feeling to see every piece of brass ejecting with almost the exact same arc out of the gun.  The perfect extractor tension helps this, but a lot of it goes straight back to the point you make on the front of the ejector.

 

 

Btw, Brazos made an article on ejector tuning a long time ago and posted it online.  You may be able to find it if you're into digging through old web archives.  He included pictures, which I can't do right now.

 

Also, STI will never tune your ejector perfectly (as far as I know), they will just use their factory parts until they work well enough together.

 

I'm in Dallas if anyone ever needs help with any of this.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Whoops!

[rr4406pak]

Update on this problem:

 

-I have found that when I use factory Atlanta Arms 147gr 9mm Major ammo the gun runs 100% (which made me happy).

 

-Reading all your posts I believe my problem exists because of my reloads using inconsistent mixed brass, or me just loading to low of a power factor.

 

-I'm going to have an Aftec extractor professionally tuned and fitted (and my ejector tuned).

 

Thanks for all the info!

[Scully]

In my DVC OPEN I run 6.8AC 124gr montana gold and a aftec extractor. 

[MikieM]

The reason you're having the case stick underneath the scope mount is two-fold. (1) The mount itself. A 90 degree mount may solve the problem, along with the added benefit of a better visual over the top of the gun. (2) The hammer spring. Even though the recoil spring is light the hammer spring may be too strong. As the slide goes toward the rear it strikes the hammer and slows. If it slows too much (as when using reduce loads) you may have ejection problems. Try a 17 pound main spring.