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Where is the "Make Ready Location"


nuidad

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17 hours ago, nuidad said:

 

That's the issue here.   Is the Make Ready location the same as the Start location?  8.7.1 only mentions the Make Ready location...I'm not sure you can stretch that to also mean the Start location.

 

8.3.1.1 "Once the "make ready" command has been given, the competitor must not move away from the start position etc etc 

 

The rulebook would really really suck if someone tried to make it cover every conceivable interpretation and precisely detail all of the do's and do nots. Seems like intent is clear. 

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My confusion could have been resolved with something simple in the rules like"...the RO will designate the Make Ready location..."  But since it doesn't say that, I see the need for a practical application of discretion on the ROs part in determining the MR location.  I get it.  As I said, if this is the general practice...I'm  good. 

 

General area of the Start location.  Couple of steps to get a sight picture…all good.

 

Thanks all

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Most RO's and shooters are pretty reasonable.  With the exception of Open and CO most can easily Make Ready at the start location.  Open and CO might need to step to the side to check their optic if no visible targets are available downrange from the start location.  I have never had a shooter move more than a couple of steps before a target becomes available.

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On 7/4/2017 at 3:12 PM, IHAVEGAS said:

 

8.3.1.1 "Once the "make ready" command has been given, the competitor must not move away from the start position etc etc 

 

 

 

To me this seems clear.  The competitor should be in the start position prior to the RO issuing the Make Ready command.  Once the command is given, they may take one step.  However, being reasonable, if a competitor requests to take more than one step and is under the direction of the RO, I see no issue.  

 

In addition, it must be consistent throughout the match.  Each shooter should have the same opportunity.

 

If a shooter disregards a non-approval from the RO for additional steps, they would be subject to at a minimum of a procedural under 10.2.2 or potentially a DQ under 10.6.1

 

 

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"Referencing 8.3.1.1, unless the WSB specifies some make ready location other than the start location, such as placing a gun on a barrel or table or in a drawer, the make ready location is the same as the start location. Writing permission to take a few steps away into the WSB violates 8.3.1.1 and is not allowed. It’s incumbent upon all RO’s to be aware of and enforce this rule. "

 

Apparently Troy McManus reads Enos?

 

From the latests USPSA Downrange email. 

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41 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

"Referencing 8.3.1.1, unless the WSB specifies some make ready location other than the start location, such as placing a gun on a barrel or table or in a drawer, the make ready location is the same as the start location. Writing permission to take a few steps away into the WSB violates 8.3.1.1 and is not allowed. It’s incumbent upon all RO’s to be aware of and enforce this rule. "

 

Apparently Troy McManus reads Enos?

 

From the latests USPSA Downrange email. 

 

Ya think?!

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From Troy Mcmanus-- 

 

o

Referencing 8.3.1.1, unless the WSB specifies some make ready location other than the

start location, such as placing a gun on a barrel or table or in

a drawer, the make ready

location is the same as the start location. Writing permission to take a few steps away

into the WSB violates 8.3.1.1 and is not allowed. It’s incumbent upon all RO’s to be

aware of and enforce this rule

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Ultimately, there is the potential for 10.6.1 as the shooter is likely failing to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official.  Extreme - Yes.  But if the RO actually tells you you cannot do that and you do ... well, it's on you!  I had to tag a shoot like that at the Nationals some years back and, guess what ... The RM (Troy) upheld it.  (He also drew his gun while doing it WITHOUT my having actually given the MR command ...)

 

When I see a shooter starting to leave the position I call them back and inform them that is not allowed.  Rarely, I get an argument ... But the rule book is my friend.  I show it to them if they insist I'm wrong.  (That's VERY rare that someone asks me to support it.  But I can, and have.)

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1 hour ago, jeff40 said:

NOW, I'd like to know the PENALTY for taking more than a step away from the Make Ready position on the LAMR command??  10.2.2??

 

 

Good question.

 

I assume you are right.

 

While we are at it, based on the rulebook, what can you do when a shooter is repeatedly not making a reasonable effort to help reset a stage? 10.6.1 ?

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3 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Good question.

 

I assume you are right.

 

While we are at it, based on the rulebook, what can you do when a shooter is repeatedly not making a reasonable effort to help reset a stage? 10.6.1 ?

No.

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On 7/6/2017 at 11:42 AM, jeff40 said:

NOW, I'd like to know the PENALTY for taking more than a step away from the Make Ready position on the LAMR command??  10.2.2??

 

how would 10.2.2 come into effect? that addresses not following the WSB and Make ready is not part of the WSB. 

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16 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

how would 10.2.2 come into effect? that addresses not following the WSB and Make ready is not part of the WSB. 

 

On 7/6/2017 at 1:38 PM, jeff40 said:

From Troy Mcmanus-- 

 

o

Referencing 8.3.1.1, unless the WSB specifies some make ready location other than the

start location, such as placing a gun on a barrel or table or in

a drawer, the make ready

location is the same as the start location. Writing permission to take a few steps away

into the WSB violates 8.3.1.1 and is not allowed. It’s incumbent upon all RO’s to be

aware of and enforce this rule

 

Start location is same as make ready location (except as noted) and is part of WSB, so, since A=B and A is covered then B is covered. My best guess anyway. 

 

 

 

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On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 6:05 AM, IHAVEGAS said:

"Referencing 8.3.1.1, unless the WSB specifies some make ready location other than the start location, such as placing a gun on a barrel or table or in a drawer, the make ready location is the same as the start location. Writing permission to take a few steps away into the WSB violates 8.3.1.1 and is not allowed. It’s incumbent upon all RO’s to be aware of and enforce this rule. "

 

Apparently Troy McManus reads Enos?

 

From the latests USPSA Downrange email. 

Just so I'm clear:

  • MR location is the Start location,
  • Barrel or table starts will, logically, have a different MR and Start location,
  • Written permission in the WSB for additional steps to take a sight picture is not permitted,
  • (??) The RO could grant some movement away from the Start location under 8.3.1.1 but not for a sight picture.

 

8.3.1.1  Once the "Make Ready" command has been given, the competitor must not move away from the start location prior to issuance of the "Start Signal" without the prior approval, and under the direct supervision, of the Range Officer.

Edited by nuidad
Clarification
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On 7/7/2017 at 1:57 PM, IHAVEGAS said:

 

 

Start location is same as make ready location (except as noted) and is part of WSB, so, since A=B and A is covered then B is covered. My best guess anyway. 

 

 

 

I don't agree with your logic, But I also don't agree with Troys logic. 

 

The only penalty I could see being applied to leaving wherever you were given the Make Ready command would be a 10.5.1 DQ and that would only be if the competitor drew their gun and ran "away" from the RO far enough for the RO to feel the shooter was no longer under his direct supervision. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

I don't agree with your logic, But I also don't agree with Troys logic. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the internet, nobody expects anything to be settled with logic.

 

:)

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I thought 8.3.1.1 came into being because guys were turning on their dot and then jaunting around the entire field course taking sight pictures of every single target from every view. 

 

Ain't nobody got time for that.

 

 

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I thought 8.3.1.1 came into being because guys were turning on their dot and then jaunting around the entire field course taking sight pictures of every single target from every view. 
 
Ain't nobody got time for that.
 
 

Yes
But unfortunatly there is no penalty prescribed so if they do it we loose more time telling them they can't and arguing over the non existent penalty.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

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30 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:


Yes
But unfortunatly there is no penalty prescribed so if they do it we loose more time telling them they can't and arguing over the non existent penalty.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

 

Meh, if it ever really became a manhood measurement thing instead of just another cyber space hypothetical I'd call it a procedural under 8.3.1.1/10.2.2 . The shooter could choose to squabble it out with the rm and if I was overridden then that would be ok. 

Edited by IHAVEGAS
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