GrayR Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Alright guys Ive got the scoring question I'm sure has been asked but I didn't feel like threading through the 1,197 threads that popped up for the answer. I'm very new at this and I I was just wondering where hits vs time lies in a score. I ask because I was looking at the scoreboard from my first match and I was one of two open shooters. Over the course of the match he was 5.53 seconds faster than I was. I shot 116 As 2 Bs and 2 Cs. He shot 86 As 6 Bs 23 Cs 4 Ds 1 miss and 1 no shoot. Now im not griping that he beat me cause I had a hell of a lot of fun but I just as yet don't know where the scoring system is at in regards to speed vs hits. Can you guys that are good at speaking in laymans terms help me out? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eureka1911 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Points/time = Hit Factor (HF). Higher HF wins. Here's a good summary on scoring: http://www.rbgc.org/USPSA/USPSAscoring.htm And this thread will help too: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) Time vs. Hits = basic math. A HF is determined by raw points (less any penalties) divided by the time. Easiest way to think of it is you are scored on a "points per second" basis. High (HF) score wins. Hence, if the points are anywhere near close, the faster shooter wins. The more the raw point spread is, the faster the less accurate shooter has to shoot in order to beat the slower more accurate shooter. Trick is to find your best balance between the two in order to maximize your HF (points per second.) Edited June 30, 2017 by Schutzenmeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Maybe my math is wrong, but did you really average a 10.3 hit factor in your first match?!? If you shot 596 points and he shot 538 (I'm assuming you both shot Major, otherwise it would be even more unbelievable), and his time was only 5.53 seconds faster, that would take some really fast times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, kneelingatlas said: Maybe my math is wrong, but did you really average a 10.3 hit factor in your first match?!? How can you possibly derive an "overall" HF given the information in the OP? He never stated his total time OR whether he (or his friend) were shooting Major or minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 48 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said: How can you possibly derive an "overall" HF given the information in the OP? He never stated his total time OR whether he (or his friend) were shooting Major or minor. He gave me the points scored (I assumed they're both shooting major, if he was shooting minor it would have a marginal impact because he shot 116 As out of 120 shots; if the other guy beat him shooting minor he would have had an outrageously low time): 596 vs 538, he gave me the difference in time: 5.53 seconds, and he said he was beaten, so: 596/X < 538/(X-5.3) Solve for X: X (Gray's overall time) < 56.83 seconds Therefore Grays hit factor was greater than 10.48 (forgive me for my rough estimate above) Minor scoring would have only changed his score by 0.6% So like I said above, 116 As and, 2 Bs and 2 Cs in under 56.83 seconds is pretty incredible for a first match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 3 hours ago, GrayR said: I was looking at the scoreboard from my first match and I was one of two open shooters. Over the course of the match he was 5.53 seconds faster than I was. I shot 116 As 2 Bs and 2 Cs. He shot 86 As 6 Bs 23 Cs 4 Ds 1 miss and 1 no shoot. By all means Gray, please show us the scoreboard so we don't have to guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, kneelingatlas said: 596/X < 538/(X-5.3) Interesting approach. However, it has one fatal flaw: Position in the match (i.e., winning or losing) is based on a sum of match points which are in turn a sum of stage points earned. It is not based on any theoretical overall match HF. If the match had only one stage, I might be able to see your way through this analysis. However, based on a round count of 120 rounds, I highly doubt that! The mixture of the stages and how each shooter performed on those stages (relative to each other) is what determines outcome, not an "overall" analysis as you seem to want to provide. I seriously question your conclusions ... They could be right, but absent actual information on each shooter's stage and overall results, I remain VERY skeptical! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Good point, I would have to look at each stage in isolation to apply that logic. Hopefully we can take a look at the real results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Gray, not a very large crowd, or very deep field, but I would say you did really, really well for your first time out! Course there was only 2 Open guys, but you hit over 95% running Minor! Your 1st Open guy, that beat you, has been playing this game since 2/2011, so he has several years more experience than you do. First overall has been playing since early 2007. Think where you will be in after a couple of dozen matches...... https://practiscore.com/results/new/38445 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 9 hours ago, kneelingatlas said: Maybe my math is wrong My math was wrong , but you still did great for your first match Now looking at the scores I can see where he made big gains over you: -he was scored major where you were scored minor, so while your B/C shots cost you two points, they only cost him one -he blew up on stage three, but it was a low round count stage so it didn't hurt him much -he smoked stages two and four, which were weighted heavily due to the high round count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 BTW - on the road to improvement it's not time vs. points -- rather the goal should be maximum points in the shortest time possible..... Need to focus on both, not treat them as separate things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 14 hours ago, kneelingatlas said: Now looking at the scores I can see where he made big gains over you: -he was scored major where you were scored minor, so while your B/C shots cost you two points, they only cost him one -he blew up on stage three, but it was a low round count stage so it didn't hurt him much -he smoked stages two and four, which were weighted heavily due to the high round count THAT'S an analysis I can buy! I suspected something like this but lacked the match data to be able to make any kind of analysis. Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayR Posted July 1, 2017 Author Share Posted July 1, 2017 Hey thanks for the answers everyone! Like I said I knew there was a reason for it i just didn't know what it was. Also I wasn't sure about posting scoreboards and any ettiquette involved in asking you guys to pick apart the match of someone else just for my curiosity or I would have posted it so I apologize about that. And my thinking was that I didn't realize 5 seconds made that big of a difference but hey I'll get quicker in time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Gray, even though it's DVC, it's mostly C! Any USPSA member can look up any other USPSA member's classification by name or number, course in your case, it was just a DaGoogle away. Shoot faster, have more fun. Translation, if you miss, miss quick. It's the fastest thing you can do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayR Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 Should be easy. If there's anything I'm good at, it's missing fast! And I've been watching the videos my fiancée took and my largest time eater was moving between shooting positions so that's what I'm workin on now. Thanks again for the explanations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 It's all easy as pie, the only hard part is doing it really, really fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robb315 Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 http://www.travis-tomasie.com/hit-factors-and-uspsa-ipsc-scoring.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayR Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 God almighty it's fun. There was a pro at the match I shot and I asked him when my hands would quit shaking and he told me about 20 minutes after I left the match and he was right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 7 hours ago, GrayR said: God almighty it's fun. There was a pro at the match I shot and I asked him when my hands would quit shaking and he told me about 20 minutes after I left the match and he was right! Pray tell, who was the pro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody6477 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 On 6/30/2017 at 1:11 PM, kneelingatlas said: He gave me the points scored (I assumed they're both shooting major, if he was shooting minor it would have a marginal impact because he shot 116 As out of 120 shots; if the other guy beat him shooting minor he would have had an outrageously low time): 596 vs 538, he gave me the difference in time: 5.53 seconds, and he said he was beaten, so: 596/X < 538/(X-5.3) Solve for X: X (Gray's overall time) < 56.83 seconds Therefore Grays hit factor was greater than 10.48 (forgive me for my rough estimate above) Minor scoring would have only changed his score by 0.6% So like I said above, 116 As and, 2 Bs and 2 Cs in under 56.83 seconds is pretty incredible for a first match! And some of think we'll never have a use for that algebra class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, GrayR said: I've been watching the videos my fiancée took and my largest time eater was moving between shooting positions so that's what I'm workin on now. This is always the case. Moving from position to position kills novices. My standard advice is to set up a couple targets (or use lamp shades and light switches) in your largest room and dryfire at two over here, run, then two targets over there. Even if it's from one end of the sofa to the other, this still works, although longer distances are better. Prop your phone up and record yourself. Youll be stunned how fast it FEELS to ... shuffle slowly. And how shockingly fast you have to run to actually be running, from the perspective of an outside observer. Huge learning experience that takes 15 mins. Edited July 3, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayR Posted July 3, 2017 Author Share Posted July 3, 2017 I say he was a pro. He said that his usual game is 3 gun shooting for Daniel defense he was just doin this match for fun. But it was Jimmie Oliver the guy who placed second. And yeah I agree with everything you said about feeling fast and moving slow. I didn't think I was burning down the track by any means but my god I was just walking along slow as you please. I've been spray painting shooting boxes out on the range and drawing and shooting two then going to the next box and shooting two and it's getting me more comfortable with leaving the position and stopping in the second one. Every little bit helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 https://practiscore.com/results/new/39019?q_division=5 i feel embarrassed to post it, but here is a good example of this from my own recent experience. looking at just production, myself and second place shot within 1 A and 1 C of each other. he shot 2 misses and 1 no shoot. i on the other hand shot 5 misses and 4 no shoots. that's more than i've done in the past 4 major matches i've shot in the past 3 months! i felt horrible about my execution during the match. bbbuuuuttttt, i was panting and showing signs of exertion at the end of each stage. i was doing things as absolutely as quickly and aggressively as I could and I felt it physically. well low and behold results come out and being 17 seconds faster in raw time over 6 stages made up for having 3 times, yes 3 times, the number of penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayR Posted July 3, 2017 Author Share Posted July 3, 2017 Excellent! I'll start moving quick and hopefully climb a few points on the board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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