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Buffer weight vs. Bolt carrier weight.


Joefischetti

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Running an intermediate gas length 16" 

Tunned my muzzle brake to where the dot does not move and I can now get great hammers on bay stages. 

I wanted to try and save some weight. Installed a light weight BCG. Left the carbine buffer as is. Noticed my dot diving straight down. 

Should I experiment with removing weight from buffer or go back to a standard BCG?

TIA

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LW BCG is part of a system.  Adjustable gas and buffer spring are the other parts.  So, options are to use your old BCC if you are happy with the way it runs.  Or, use an adjustable gas block to reduce the amount of gas going to BCG, and get a lighter spring like the TTI.

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I know about the system . I like to change one thing at a time so I can observe the results, good or bad. 

I also gain experience on how each part works with the others.

Just like a pistol recoil spring that is too strong driving the muzzle down as the gun goes into battery I was going to play with the weights. I know folks that run LW BCG with all he weight out of the buffer and a plain GB. 

My thoughts were to reduce the weight of the buffer by the same amount of difference between the BCGs. 

TIA

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1 hour ago, Joefischetti said:

I know about the system . I like to change one thing at a time so I can observe the results, good or bad. 

I also gain experience on how each part works with the others.

Just like a pistol recoil spring that is too strong driving the muzzle down as the gun goes into battery I was going to play with the weights. I know folks that run LW BCG with all he weight out of the buffer and a plain GB. 

My thoughts were to reduce the weight of the buffer by the same amount of difference between the BCGs. 

TIA

Buffer weight is reciprocating mass just like the BCG, removing weight from buffer will do the opposite of what you are thinking.  Reducing gas is the answer.  Not trying to dissuade you from experimenting, just providing a short cut to your destination.

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  • 4 weeks later...

From experience - don't change up your BCG/buffer weight/recoil spring/ gas block setting without TESTING and maybe resetting your gas block to the lowest reliable setting.

 

I learned this less while 'bolt action' cycling my rifle on the clock in a match ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Probably should have waited to tune your comp until you had gone with lightened reciprocating mass.

 

 

 

A lot of people miss the point of light weight carriers and buffers, with the recent light rifle trend.  It isn't to shave weight from the gun, it is to lessen reciprocating mass.

 

You will probably need an adjustable gas block and might need to retune your comp to get your gun leveled out if you go with a light bolt carrier and buffer.

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As said, all the parts play their role. On mine I had an Armalite brake and gas tuned, then later put in a LW BCG, Taccom light weight buffer and TTI spring. Definitely dipped. Retuned gas, dip lessened a bit, retuning brake was still needed though. 

 

Your BCG was the pricey part, IMO go the rest of the way, you should be happy where it takes you. :)

Edited by O_O
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Adjustable gas system is eye opening.  Once you have that, you'll have a baseline amount of gas that it takes for your rifle to cycle.  As you lighten/upgrade parts in the reciprocating system, you'll notice that you can close your gas system a little more.  This generally amounts to less sight movement too.

 

You can even see things like worn gas rings.  Changing to fresh ones for me allowed me to close my gas block another click or two.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am having trouble wrapping my head around reciprocating mass.  Today I had a 3 gunner say he uses a extra power spring, lighter buffer and a lmbcg.  others say light spring, light buffer, adj gas block.  I guess my question is like CharlieD said above less gas?  So I want as much gas to go out the front of the rifle? Please explain

 

Thanks

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Using less gas means the bolt isn't slammed back into the tube as hard, and gentler cycling. It also means less force to operate the gun's action reliably.

 

A lower mass BCG will require less gas to move than a heavy one. Because Issac Newton.

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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5 hours ago, jbv7 said:

Ok thanks.  what buffer and spring is a good set up?

Disclaimer: I do not know from experience I'm just researching this topic alot right now.

It looks like alot of guys are using the taccom light weight buffer. I'm thinking this one but they also have one you can add different weights 

https://taccom3g.com/product/rifle-recoil-system/

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Before you start changing buffers I would really recommend to get an adjustable gas block, without it you'll be moving a lighter carrier faster into a lighter buffer that offers less resistance creating more cycling issues and most likely increasing the perceived recoil since everything is moving faster. Like said above its all a system so to run good you need to tune all 3 parts. For gas block I would recommend SLR or Odin works anf for buffer either the JP silent captured spring or the Taccom ULW 

Edited by Eviljarv
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Yeah definitely want adjustable gas. Spring wise, the TACCOM buffer works great either with their enhanced spring or the TTI ultimate lightweight (this is what TACCOM's owner recommended before they made their own spring)

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18 hours ago, jbv7 said:

Ok thanks.  what buffer and spring is a good set up?

TTI lightspeed spring and remove weights from standard buffer is cheap and easy.  Taccom setup is good too.  JP SCS is expensive, but really nice.

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4 hours ago, Eviljarv said:

Before you start changing buffers I would really recommend to get an adjustable gas block, without it you'll be moving a lighter carrier faster into a lighter buffer that offers less resistance creating more cycling issues and most likely increasing the perceived recoil since everything is moving faster. Like said above its all a system so to run good you need to tune all 3 parts. For gas block I would recommend SLR or Odin works anf for buffer either the JP silent captured spring or the Taccom ULW 

I have an adjustable gas block.  and i have a jp captured spring with the 85% spring but I feel that i still have to much recoil.  I also have sjs titian brake.  is there big differences in adjustable gas blocks?

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2 hours ago, O_O said:

Yeah definitely want adjustable gas. Spring wise, the TACCOM buffer works great either with their enhanced spring or the TTI ultimate lightweight (this is what TACCOM's owner recommended before they made their own spring)

thats what I am leaning towards, thanks

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29 minutes ago, CharlieD said:

TTI lightspeed spring and remove weights from standard buffer is cheap and easy.  Taccom setup is good too.  JP SCS is expensive, but really nice.

Yes I dropped the money on the scs.  It is very quiet.  I didn't order the the spring pack because I didn't think 5% less spring would make that big of difference.  I thought about trimming the spring.

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3 hours ago, jbv7 said:

I have an adjustable gas block.  and i have a jp captured spring with the 85% spring but I feel that i still have to much recoil.  I also have sjs titian brake.  is there big differences in adjustable gas blocks?

Not really, they might adjust different ways but at the end of the day all they do is restrict gas flow. Are you running a full mass or low mass bcg? What gas length? My 20" precision AR runs the titan brake, Odin adjustable gas block, JP low mass bcg and captured spring and pretty much feels like a .22

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22 hours ago, Eviljarv said:

Also, are you sure you have the gas block adjusted properly? I'm not a big fan of lighter buffers with full mass carriers.

I am running a low mass bcg, from closed on the gas block, 2.5 turns out will lock back the bolt with one shell in the mag, doesn't feel like a 22

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20 minutes ago, jbv7 said:

I am running a low mass bcg, from closed on the gas block, 2.5 turns out will lock back the bolt with one shell in the mag, doesn't feel like a 22

So if you turn gas down any further bolt won't lock back?  Has this been adjusted since you added the SCS and low mass bcg?

What length barrel and gas length?  Is it a lightweight build?  Heavier rifles usually feel better.  

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34 minutes ago, CharlieD said:

So if you turn gas down any further bolt won't lock back?  Has this been adjusted since you added the SCS and low mass bcg?

What length barrel and gas length?  Is it a lightweight build?  Heavier rifles usually feel better.  

yes bolt won't lock back, yes when I put the lmbcg i re adjusted the gas block.  not much different than the standard bcg. 16" barrel, i belive mid length gas system, not a light build.  someone said find lighter ammo, there all around 3100fps+/- from what I found.

Edited by jbv7
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