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Yeah, winning B is not really a thing. Thinking it *is* a thing seems like a good way to stifle the progression of your skills.

 

I just try to get closer to the best guys, and increase my percentage of the overall winner (or division winner at a major).

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2 hours ago, motosapiens said:

Yeah, winning B is not really a thing. Thinking it *is* a thing seems like a good way to stifle the progression of your skills.

 

I just try to get closer to the best guys, and increase my percentage of the overall winner (or division winner at a major).

Maybe to you its not a thing, but thats a measurable way to get better. If your a C class guy or low B, setting your sights on knocking off the top B guys is a good way to go. and then when you get there focus on beating the top A guy. 

I think winning B works fine for me, and when I get a promotion from B to A at some major or classifier then I'll go after winning top A. And so on. At least I get to bring something home with me when I win a class. Whats the point of showing up if I'm not gonna try and win something? I fully understand I'm not competitive with Nils, Max, Vogel, etc... so I have something in the interim that I can be competitive in. If I wanted to go spend the same amount of money and have 'fun' I'd go fly model airplanes or some other waste of time activity.

A guy just starting and trying to go after a GM on his first day is going to get crushed shooting that fast. You already said you dont much care the the classifications so This post was pretty much a waste of my time. Dont get me wrong, trying to win HOA at a match is a good goal i guess, but your gonna make more mistakes pushing yourself to shoot that fast than you would actually shooting at a level where you could win a class. The C class guy isn't going to win HOA, so why cant he focus on winning C or beating all the B guys?

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2 minutes ago, Dutchman195 said:

Maybe to you its not a thing, but thats a measurable way to get better. If your a C class guy or low B, setting your sights on knocking off the top B guys is a good way to go. and then when you get there focus on beating the top A guy. 

I think winning B works fine for me, and when I get a promotion from B to A at some major or classifier then I'll go after winning top A. And so on. At least I get to bring something home with me when I win a class. Whats the point of showing up if I'm not gonna try and win something? I fully understand I'm not competitive with Nils, Max, Vogel, etc... so I have something in the interim that I can be competitive in. If I wanted to go spend the same amount of money and have 'fun' I'd go fly model airplanes or some other waste of time activity.

A guy just starting and trying to go after a GM on his first day is going to get crushed shooting that fast. You already said you dont much care the the classifications so This post was pretty much a waste of my time. Dont get me wrong, trying to win HOA at a match is a good goal i guess, but your gonna make more mistakes pushing yourself to shoot that fast than you would actually shooting at a level where you could win a class. The C class guy isn't going to win HOA, so why cant he focus on winning C or beating all the B guys?

 

wut? who said anything about trying to 'go after a GM'? If you think people who don't care about classes aren't competitive, or are only shooting for fun, you have totally misunderstood my post, and probably also the whole point of competition in general.

 

I don't focus on 'winning' anything. I can't control whether I 'win'. That depends very much on who else shows up and how they do and what weird things happen to them. What I can control is how *I* shoot, and whether I improve or not. Beating a guy who used to be better than you is one way of measuring that, but I personally find it much more useful to focus on my percentage of the top shooters. Of course I'm not going to shoot as fast as an open GM, but the guys that win matches tend to be pretty consistent, so if last year I was shooting 70%, and this year I'm shooting 80%, then that means I am getting better, and it reinforces my desire to practice and focus and improve. It is also useful to focus on the individuals that consistently beat you by a little, and try to improve to where you are beating them, not by *trying* to shoot as fast as them, but by practicing until you *do* shoot as fast as them (and more accurately). I don't "try to win", i just practice and improve and shoot consistently. By doing that, I am confident that the results will be there.

 

I understand that for many people, its important to pretend they 'win' when they beat some other people that also haven't trained enough to be at a higher classification. That is why we have self-esteem awards. I throw them away, but if they motivate you to practice, then that's kewl.

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On ‎5‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 7:17 PM, Flatland Shooter said:

Then there are the reverse sandbaggers.  Those idiots that shoot classifiers better than field courses and then get stuck in a class well above their skills.  

 

Hey, I resemble that remark. While it's only been a couple matches, I've found myself shooting the classifier stages better for some reason to the point that I'd be rated a C yet every other stage I have shot I am a solid middle D so far.

 

Several have mentioned getting rid of the classifications. That is a very poor idea IMHO and here is why. Being a new shooter I want to feel like I have a chance at some "glory" on a really good day. That means beating the others who are at my level. When I look at the matches I've shot I can look and see how I've done against others in my skill level and I can make a simple goal of just beating those few people by the end of the summer. If I happen to shoot better than someone in a different level above me on a given day, then it is even better for my mindset to want to continue. If you really want new people to keep showing up and learning and joining you then you need to provide a hook and give them a reason to. By lumping everyone in together you provide almost no motivation to even want to get better because you may realize that you will NEVER be as good as the top guy on any given weekend. It is a disincentive to trying harder.

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2 hours ago, mikeinctown said:

 

Several have mentioned getting rid of the classifications. That is a very poor idea IMHO and here is why. Being a new shooter I want to feel like I have a chance at some "glory" on a really good day. That means beating the others who are at my level. When I look at the matches I've shot I can look and see how I've done against others in my skill level and I can make a simple goal of just beating those few people by the end of the summer. If I happen to shoot better than someone in a different level above me on a given day, then it is even better for my mindset to want to continue. If you really want new people to keep showing up and learning and joining you then you need to provide a hook and give them a reason to. By lumping everyone in together you provide almost no motivation to even want to get better because you may realize that you will NEVER be as good as the top guy on any given weekend. It is a disincentive to trying harder.

 

 

I think that depends on how you look at it. many people seem focused on beating other people as their motivating factor. That's cool, and I understand it, but I personally have better results by just trying to improve... period. Looking at my percentage of the overall match winner tends to be much more consistent, at least here where we have several Gm's and M's shooting. Whoever comes out on top is likely to have had a consistently good match, whereas if you beat joe schmoe in C class (especially in a smaller division), you don't always know if it's because his gun broke, or he was hungover, or you shot great, or what. If i was shooting 60% of the overall winner (a national class open shooter) last year, and I'm shooting 70% this year, it's clear I am getting better, and that motivates me. I also find that class/division results come for free if I just get better without worrying about them, and without worrying about other people.  Bottom line tho is whatever motivates you to practice and improve is a good thing. 

 

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I like trophies.

 

Like the comic Demetri Martin says, "Once I found out you could buy trophies, I got good at everything."

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Posted (edited)
On 6/16/2017 at 6:27 PM, rowdyb said:

I like trophies.

 

Lol, I just throw most of them away now. Some last a few months, some go in the trash as soon as i get home. i only ever saved one that was related to class, and that was just as a joke (because it was L10). But everyone has different motivations. Yours are not wrong.

Edited by motosapiens

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On 6/16/2017 at 1:52 PM, mikeinctown said:

 

Hey, I resemble that remark. While it's only been a couple matches, I've found myself shooting the classifier stages better for some reason to the point that I'd be rated a C yet every other stage I have shot I am a solid middle D so far.

 

There's a big difference IMHO, in someone who has reached a higher level on proficiency with respect to skills often tested in a classifier, such as draws, reloads, etc. (opposed to field courses whereby your draw, for example, doesn't have as much impact) and someone who is shooting a classifier to "hero it" and as such, artificially increases their classification to a point where they then fall woefully short in actual matches of their designated skill level.

 

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The trophy isn't my motivation. I just like them. My motivation is to perfect my skills well enough I can show up at any match, with any kind of stage and beat most the people there. That's my motivation.

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3 hours ago, rowdyb said:

The trophy isn't my motivation. I just like them. My motivation is to perfect my skills well enough I can show up at any match, with any kind of stage and beat most the people there. That's my motivation.

Reasonable, and not too uncommon, but consider that is still defining your success in terms of things that are beyond your control, like who shows up. I'm sure you have won matches where there was no serious competition, and I'm sure you have also shot extremely well in highly-competitive matches and not won, but perhaps shot your best ever percentage of a national champion's score. Which is more satisfying? Which is more indicative of the level of your skills?

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I don't know what to make of all this.

I see people shooting in a different division at a lower classification all the time and I just assume they are hunting trophies.

 

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On 5/31/2017 at 3:47 PM, jchris4769 said:

 

So, what are you sandbaggers out there trying to accomplish? Do you feel like a winner when you are 1st in a class that you know you don't belong in?

 

I've told many that it reminds me of a Southpark episode where Cartman joins the "special olympics".

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25 minutes ago, StratRider said:

I've told many that it reminds me of a Southpark episode where Cartman joins the "special olympics".

 

But doesn't he finish dead last in every event :)

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