sheepdog69 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Hey everyone. All my life when I start a competition or game etc like pool or darts I always played the best and got beat by the best. I always learned faster and became a force to play against because of that. Do you think this could work for shooting sports too? Go right for limited or open. Get my ass whooped but learn a lot much faster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 what makes you think that's where the best shooters are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Open is 1 mag change, flat shooting gun, with an optic, major scoring, Limited is 2 mag changes, almost flat shooting gun, no optic, major scoring, L10 is same as Limited, with more mag changes, CO is 2 mag changes, can be made to almost flat shooting gun, with an optic, minor scoring, Production is multiple mag changes, can be made to almost flat shooting gun, no optic, minor scoring, no "real" external mods, restrictive placement of holsters and holders, and more restrictive rules overall. Get good in Production and you will be good in all the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackCage Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 44 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said: Open is 1 mag change, flat shooting gun, with an optic, major scoring, Limited is 2 mag changes, almost flat shooting gun, no optic, major scoring, L10 is same as Limited, with more mag changes, CO is 2 mag changes, can be made to almost flat shooting gun, with an optic, minor scoring, Production is multiple mag changes, can be made to almost flat shooting gun, no optic, minor scoring, no "real" external mods, restrictive placement of holsters and holders, and more restrictive rules overall. Get good in Production and you will be good in all the others. Hold on just a second... are you saying to improve your skills before jumping into the deep end of the pool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) Shoot with M's and GM's where you can, regardless of division and don't worry about who is "winning" or "losing." Edited May 31, 2017 by jkrispies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 16 minutes ago, TrackCage said: Hold on just a second... are you saying to improve your skills before jumping into the deep end of the pool? No, I'm saying that Production, while everyone thinks it's a beginner's division, is the division where fundementals are key. Hone your fundementals in a difficult division, and the rest will follow. You wouldn't go straight to trying to ride a unicycle before learning to ride a bicycle, would you? With minor scoring, Production MAKES you get a good site picture, with 10 round mags (and minor scoring) Production MAKES you practice your mag changes, with 10 round mags, Production MAKES you see different ways to shoot a stage (stage breakdown). As for jumping into the deep end of the pool (Limited or Open), there are GM's in all of the divisions (except maybe the newest divisions, CO and PCC, I haven't looked), so does it matter if you are learning from a Limited, Open, or Production GM? What the OP said was "play with the best" (essentially), and left out the 2nd largest division of the sport, Production. Sure, Limited and Open are the "go fast" divisions, but again, is a Production GM a less skilled shooter than the Limited or Open Gm? Or more skilled, because of the minor scoring and other restrictions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackCage Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 32 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said: No, I'm saying that Production, while everyone thinks it's a beginner's division, is the division where fundementals are key. Hone your fundementals in a difficult division, and the rest will follow. You wouldn't go straight to trying to ride a unicycle before learning to ride a bicycle, would you? With minor scoring, Production MAKES you get a good site picture, with 10 round mags (and minor scoring) Production MAKES you practice your mag changes, with 10 round mags, Production MAKES you see different ways to shoot a stage (stage breakdown). As for jumping into the deep end of the pool (Limited or Open), there are GM's in all of the divisions (except maybe the newest divisions, CO and PCC, I haven't looked), so does it matter if you are learning from a Limited, Open, or Production GM? What the OP said was "play with the best" (essentially), and left out the 2nd largest division of the sport, Production. Sure, Limited and Open are the "go fast" divisions, but again, is a Production GM a less skilled shooter than the Limited or Open Gm? Or more skilled, because of the minor scoring and other restrictions? Perhaps my sarcasm was lost in translation, as I'm fairly new around here. We're in 100% agreement! P.S., I've only ever shot Production and can't really seem to find a reason to jump to another division. Something about beating a few guys in hi-cap divisions with major scoring (while I shoot a $500 glock 9mm) is pretty entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 14 minutes ago, TrackCage said: Perhaps my sarcasm was lost in translation, as I'm fairly new around here. We're in 100% agreement! P.S., I've only ever shot Production and can't really seem to find a reason to jump to another division. Something about beating a few guys in hi-cap divisions with major scoring (while I shoot a $500 glock 9mm) is pretty entertaining. No, i got your sarcasm....but it let me explain my reasoning behind suggesting that shooting Production was one of the best ways to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepdog69 Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 i get what your saying everyone, and actually a production GM prob can shhot ? better than an open? his gun has no mods, and all recoil minus load parimeters where the opn person has a flat gun? i guess what i really am trying to decide is what gun to build? i want to buy a competition pistol, either limited or limited with the options to make it open. but I do want to shoot with the big dogs, in all divisions... this is where i learn thanks everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 What it boils down to is, you want to shoot in the "go fast" divisions. If you want to learn fundementals, shoot Production, if you want to go fast, shoot Limited or Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackCage Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 12 hours ago, sheepdog69 said: i get what your saying everyone, and actually a production GM prob can shhot ? better than an open? his gun has no mods, and all recoil minus load parimeters where the opn person has a flat gun? i guess what i really am trying to decide is what gun to build? i want to buy a competition pistol, either limited or limited with the options to make it open. but I do want to shoot with the big dogs, in all divisions... this is where i learn thanks everyone Such a unicorn doesn't really exist. A limited gun would be in 40S&W (to be competitive). But no one shoots 40 in open. IMO, you'd really have to pick limited OR open from the get-go unless you would have different top ends to switch calibers. Since it sounds like you want to build a race gun instead of shooting production, and if it were me making that choice, I'd probably shoot limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 some good points in this thread. there are a few people that shoot 40 in open, and some of them are even quite good. i started in production, and that is good for fundamentals of gun handling, but the reloads really limit your creativity regarding stage breakdown and movement. Sounds like the OP wants to go fast, so I would recommend limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepdog69 Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 Thanks everyone. I love shooting 9 and if 9 is the ticket to the open players I'll prob lean that way, I appreciate all your comments. And yes I'm still pondering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itlogo Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I've heard from quite a few GMs who have the opposite opinion--cost not being a factor, Open is a better division from which to start. Here's some dude named Max talking about it. FF to about 6:00 to get to the relevant part of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 On 5/31/2017 at 9:46 AM, sheepdog69 said: Hey everyone. All my life when I start a competition or game etc like pool or darts I always played the best and got beat by the best. I always learned faster and became a force to play against because of that. Do you think this could work for shooting sports too? Go right for limited or open. Get my ass whooped but learn a lot much faster? Definitely. That was my mindset - train to win from the get-go. Even though there were no class / divisions when I began competing, if there were, that would not have mattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911builder Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 not really about the gun but more about the shooter, am I the only one who thinks like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RileyLV Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 1 hour ago, 1911builder said: not really about the gun but more about the shooter, am I the only one who thinks like that It's not the arrow it's the Indian! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvability Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 competiting - I sure like that word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 2 hours ago, 1911builder said: not really about the gun but more about the shooter, am I the only one who thinks like that some smart people think that to some extent it *is* about the gun/division in that you will likely learn faster about fundamentals of practical shooting by shooting a high-capacity division, esp with a dot. I'm not smart, but I'm beginning to agree with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 The real question is where is the heat in your local area, all divisions (except L10) have real heat but not necessarily where you live. The match winning division may not be the division where the real competition is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) I've said for years that Open is the easiest division to shoot but the hardest division to win. The extent to which you are penalized for mistakes is certainly the largest in Open. I think competing under those constraints gives you an appreciation for consistency that you might not see as much in other divisions. The sooner you gain that appreciation, the faster you'll mature in your ability to execute at matches. As has been said many times before, the biggest advantage by far is the dot. Instant exact feedback that is easier to visually digest than irons. The advantages to that seem self evident to someone trying to improve. Even if you don't have any fire around you for competition, that shouldn't matter. If you're a GM and the next highest class locally in your division is C, you should be trying to bury that poor C shooter to 30% of your score. Edited October 28, 2017 by Jake Di Vita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reverse_edge Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Doesn't matter which division you shoot if you're trying to win overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzo357 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Where is the heat at the matches you shoot? In our club, Open and Limited are the big dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Why not go to revo? Not much competition there! Shoot major, minor, open or stock. All the divisions. Clear path to the winner's circle. Great competiting! Revo: The Way To Go! (Sarcasm BTW) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B585 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Unless you are already excellent at shot calling, my vote is Carry Optics or Open. The reason is that the single most important skill you will need to acquire is shot calling.. For most people, red dots will dramatically shorten the length of time it takes you to accurately call your shots under match conditions. As Jake also said, red dots help you to see the mistakes you are making much easier. Although I did start in production, I would not recommend that because in production, basically every time you move, you’re changing a mag. When I switched to Limited, I found that my movements were poor which I attribute to not being used to have to move any distance without changing a mag. Another reason why I don’t like starting in production is because you will have to learn numerous new skills so adding changing a mag every time you move just complicates things further. Finally, at least at every local match that I’ve been ever been to, you are not squadded with people only in your division. There are excellent shooters in every division out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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