mosher Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I tried to read that and it seems like people over think it. I just pick the gun up and shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwyatt Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, mosher said: I tried to read that and it seems like people over think it. I just pick the gun up and shoot. Well yeah that works, but you can't write an article only using one sentence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I resemble that remark... hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc4you Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 I'd like to see this data as well. I don't get why you have a problem with posting it for all to see.How do you know that while shooting that person is using the same amount of grip that you measured in the dynamometer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 24 minutes ago, dvc4you said: How do you know that while shooting that person is using the same amount of grip that you measured in the dynamometer? Sounds like a good question to ask and figure out when you run the test on your own. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc4you Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 My curiosity does not go that far, but thanks for your suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlvrDragon50 Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Just throw some pressure sensors on your grip, and you can pretty easily measure grip strength. If someone wants to fund me, I'd happily do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 On 4/13/2017 at 6:04 PM, dvc4you said: How do you know that while shooting that person is using the same amount of grip that you measured in the dynamometer? They're not. Nobody grips the gun with 100% of their available grip force. Same as golf. If someone is applying 100% of their available force, I can't imagine they are hitting their target with much accuracy or that their gun handling is very fluid. I also can't imagine one could grip their gun at their peak gripping force for much longer than five seconds. If your max grip force is 200lbs and you're applying 80% of it, you're applying significantly more force than someone that maxes out at 120 applying 90%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointerman1967 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I can say this, I had a really weak grip and had some serious accuracy issues when I moved from shooting a 1911 to a CZ. The 1911 trigger hides a number of sins. I have a "COC S" on my desk at work and use it a couple of times a day and my accuracy and shooting quality overall has improved dramatically with a reasonable improvement in my grip strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preeber Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Cha-Lee, what data do you exactly have and how much do you charge for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock26Toter Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 My personal experience, especially recently is that my grip force has more impact on sight tracking than any thumb rests or grip technique. (assuming the base grip is already a good one.) When I first started concentrating on increasing my grip strength I was battling tennis elbow and on a good day could almost close a COC .5 (120lb) without pain. Now I can close the COC 1 (140lb) 4 times. (I mean the handles touch solidly) Since increasing grip strength I've seen a dramatic increase in recoil control. I have no doubt about the correlation between top shooters and top grip strength. It's easy enough. Buy a COC that can't close. Buy a set of the Expander bands also. Keep them where you'll use them... car, work, TV... For every two sets of expander bands, do a set of COC grip as hard as you can. When you can close the gripper solidly about 6 times, buy the next one up. Keep going until you are a GM or look like Popeye! or both. What can it hurt? p.s. The expander bands is to keep from increasing one side of the muscle too much and causing tennis elbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 On 5/6/2017 at 6:50 AM, Preeber said: Cha-Lee, what data do you exactly have and how much do you charge for it? Everything and 1 Million dollars........... This unrealistic answer is to force people to quit being lazy and figure this stuff out on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) @CHA-LEE sold me his data a while back. It was an amazing 10 page document. The first page had one scentence on it: "The harder you grip the gun and the straighter you pull the trigger at speed, the better you will shoot." The other nine pages were blank. Edited May 10, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamge Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 On 4/13/2017 at 9:00 AM, CHA-LEE said: In the grip strength research and my own experience I found that for the most part exceptional grip strength can be correlated with exceptional shooting skills. Sure there are the outliers where you have shooters with very strong or weak grip strength and they still suck or are very skilled. But for the most part I do see a direct correlation between increased grip strength = increased skill. But I don't think that increasing grip strength alone will magically improve someones shooting skills. I think its more a factor of the higher skilled shooters recognize that exceptional grip strength is an important tool that helps them perform to their peak level. Since its an important tool they put in dedicated work to increase or maintain their exceptional grip strength. This is no different than a power lifter focusing their training on specific muscle groups to enhance their lifting skills. They know that a minimum amount of strength is required for specific muscle groups to get the job done so they focus their training on achieving that goal. These grip dyno numbers you are measuring on good shooters, how do they compare to athletes in other sports? I would be interested in hearing how pros in golf, tennis, baseball, hockey, etc, stack up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rnlinebacker Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 [mention=15819]CHA-LEE[/mention] sold me his data a while back. It was an amazing 10 page document. The first page had once scentence on it: "The harder you grip the gun and the straighter you pull the trigger at speed, the better you will shoot." The other nine pages were blank. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]Was tampax the sponsor?Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 14 hours ago, adamge said: These grip dyno numbers you are measuring on good shooters, how do they compare to athletes in other sports? I would be interested in hearing how pros in golf, tennis, baseball, hockey, etc, stack up. Once again, that sounds like a good thing to add to YOUR research project on this. Get after it and let us know all the data for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, CHA-LEE said: Once again, that sounds like a good thing to add to YOUR research project on this. Get after it and let us know all the data for free. At this point I envision you as Gollum squatting in a dark corner petting and drooling on your USB drive that has your "research project" on it, trying to bite anyone that glances at your Precious. I hate to break it to you, but the reason no one else is traveling to matches asking good shooters to squeeze their ball is because the information just isn't very valuable. I thought it would be interesting to take a glance at but that's about the extent of it. It's funny that you keep saying you won't give it away for free but then when someone actually offered to pay, you just give a snarky response in return. While you apparently enjoy calling people lazy who won't do it (which ironically is a pretty lazy way of categorizing people), I won't do it because I already know that applying a lot of force into the gun is a good thing. I don't need to mimic what you did to discover that nor would I pay even a single dollar to you for it. My passing interest left quite quickly when you hyper inflated the value of your little experiment. At this point I have to fight a strong impulse to roll my eyes whenever I see a new comment from you on the subject. We all get it....everyone that doesn't do their own research project is lazy. Moving on..... 18 hours ago, adamge said: These grip dyno numbers you are measuring on good shooters, how do they compare to athletes in other sports? I would be interested in hearing how pros in golf, tennis, baseball, hockey, etc, stack up. Doubt it would be relevant information since everyone in the sports you listed are swinging one object at another object. In our sport we have a different set of demands to satisfy. Edited May 10, 2017 by Jake Di Vita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rnlinebacker Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 You guys are entitled to your opinion just as I am. I am not going to continue to promote laziness by posting my data for nothing other than reading entertainment for people who are not going to do anything about their grip strength anyway. If people are truly interested in improving their recoil management skills then they will explore stuff like grip strength on their own to see how it impacts their performance. If you are not willing to put in the effort to figure it out on your own then seeing the data I have isn't going to make any difference either. Lazy is as Lazy does. You can call me the bad guy all you want. I am simply stating the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeEB Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 On 4/12/2017 at 9:23 PM, tanks said: Here is a video that explains it in 60 seconds He's the man! In the class I took (last fall), he added camming action by raising the weak hand elbow rather than extending the wrist further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, DukeEB said: He's the man! In the class I took (last fall), he added camming action by raising the weak hand elbow rather than extending the wrist further. To my knowledge, Ron is a let the gun recoil kind of guy. I think that is a far less than ideal approach. I've never met anyone that just lets the gun recoil that has impressive speed / accuracy at speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeEB Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Just now, Jake Di Vita said: To my knowledge, Ron is a let the gun recoil kind of guy. I think that is a far less than ideal approach. I've never met anyone that just lets the gun recoil that has impressive speed / accuracy at speed. I know, we've discussed it. You haven't met Ron, so I'll take that with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, DukeEB said: I know, we've discussed it. You haven't met Ron, so I'll take that with a grain of salt. I don't need to meet him to be able to critically think about his ideas or technique. I'd be happy to debate him on the subject on this forum. Edited May 10, 2017 by Jake Di Vita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeEB Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Just now, Jake Di Vita said: I don't need to meet him to critically think about his ideas or technique. You don't fully understand his ideas or techniques. I do not have the verbosity to explain it well either. If you met him, or fully understood his teaching, then you wouldn't be able to say, "I've never met anyone that just lets the gun recoil that has impressive speed / accuracy at speed." There is no question that Ron is a champion: http://www.practicalshootingacademy.com/instructors/ron-avery-presidentdirector-of-training-2/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, DukeEB said: You don't fully understand his ideas or techniques. I do not have the verbosity to explain it well either. I'm willing to accept that, but until someone comes and explains how I'm wrong in a logical way that refutes what I'm saying I'm not going to change my mind. 8 minutes ago, DukeEB said: If you met him, or fully understood his teaching, then you wouldn't be able to say, "I've never met anyone that just lets the gun recoil that has impressive speed / accuracy at speed." I have high standards for what I think is impressive. A lot of those standards require the person to be faster than me. I've never seen Ron do anything that I can't do rather easily, so no I don't find his speed or accuracy while going full speed particularly impressive. He's a very good shooter. I'm sure he's a very good instructor. He has won some matches. All of that is possible while using less than ideal technique. Your assertion that these things somehow make him right is a poor foundation to base your argument on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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