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Gman57

90 Degrees and short shots

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It seems that I'm seeing a lot of stages set up shooting at 1/2 targets that are behind hard cover (barrels) at a 45 degree angel facing up and only 2-21/2 ft away. Point being that it is nearly at a 90 degree and easily broke if your not on top of your surroundings. Years ago we would make it almost impossible to break 90 unless you were blatantly brain dead. Why so many close 90 degree targets on a stage when you have the space?

Just saying

G

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That's just bad stage design and building.

 

At the match I run I have a informal policy of no visible target faces past 90deg sometimes it takes a little extra work but it pays off in the end, and doesn't have to dumb down the stage, as for targets  being 2 ft away that's  just asking for tape to get blown off, and super close targets should be used in moderation if possible.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

That's just bad stage design and building.

 

At the match I run I have a informal policy of no visible target faces past 90deg

 

2.1.4 Target Locations – When a course is constructed to include target locations other than immediately downrange, organizers and officials must protect or restrict surrounding areas to which competitors, officials or spectators have access. Each competitor must be allowed to solve the competitive problem in his own way and must not be hindered by being forced to act in any manner which might cause unsafe action. Targets must be arranged so that shooting at them on an “as and when visible” basis will not cause competitors to breach safe angles of fire.

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27 minutes ago, mreed911 said:

 

2.1.4 Target Locations – When a course is constructed to include target locations other than immediately downrange, organizers and officials must protect or restrict surrounding areas to which competitors, officials or spectators have access. Each competitor must be allowed to solve the competitive problem in his own way and must not be hindered by being forced to act in any manner which might cause unsafe action. Targets must be arranged so that shooting at them on an “as and when visible” basis will not cause competitors to breach safe angles of fire.

I have been told by a RMI directly and by multiple RM RMI on this forum, that the real interpretation of that rule is not to put targets in places where shooting at them could cause the bullets to go in un-safe directions, such as to the side in a bay with no side berm, we have all seen targets available beyond the 180 at level 2 and above matches so at the minimum we can assume that this interpretation is held bay many in the sport.  I personally read it, to keep all targets safe for the shooter to engage when they are available, and so far I have heard no complaints from anybody but the stage set up crew.

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Hell some people require no shoots put on the back of no shoots in stages that require uprange movement! 

 I love targets out at sharp angles. Shooters need to know how to maintain muzzle discipline.

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16 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

I personally read it, to keep all targets safe for the shooter to engage when they are available, and so far I have heard no complaints from anybody but the stage set up crew.

 

No complaint here just seem to see a lot of near 90 degree shoot targets in staging any more and extremely close shots within 3 feet of the muzzle.

That's all

G

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13 hours ago, Sarge said:

Hell some people require no shoots put on the back of no shoots in stages that require uprange movement! 

 I love targets out at sharp angles. Shooters need to know how to maintain muzzle discipline.

 

We do have many targets that are only available at extreme angles, but we set them so they disappear before you get to the 180 the shooter still needs to control their muzzle but at least they cant be aiming at a target while they are breaking the 180

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Posted (edited)
On 2/27/2017 at 3:22 PM, MikeBurgess said:

I have been told by a RMI directly and by multiple RM RMI on this forum, that the real interpretation of that rule is not to put targets in places where shooting at them could cause the bullets to go in un-safe directions, such as to the side in a bay with no side berm, we have all seen targets available beyond the 180 at level 2 and above matches so at the minimum we can assume that this interpretation is held bay many in the sport.  I personally read it, to keep all targets safe for the shooter to engage when they are available, and so far I have heard no complaints from anybody but the stage set up crew.

 

I have heard similar from other NROI instructors.  This seems to be one of those rules where there is not unanimous agreement among NROI.  

 

I emailed Troy about this very thing a few months back.  His response was that the rule means targets should not be able to be engaged beyond the 180.  Whether you like it or not, DNROI's interpretation is final.

 

I replied with specific stages at some of the L3 matches I had shot in 2016 that violated this rule, where he was the RM.  He said that while they made every attempt to present targets so they could not be engaged beyond the 180, sometimes it was unavoidable.

 

This was his response:

 

I can't speak to A2; Area 3, yes, due to the nature of some of the stages.  A6 and Production we tried to hide them from being immediately available on, or just past, the 180.  Nothing prevents a competitor from "reaching back" so to speak and engaging one well past the 180.  Since stages are set up to be shot freestyle (for the most part), and usually solving the problem is pretty dynamic, and the competitor may or may not always be aware of exactly where the 180 is, we try to keep people from shooting at a target that would cause them to break the 180 at a certain point.  We can't cover them all up, however, and there is still a need for muzzle discipline on the competitor's part.  However, every attempt should be made to not allow a target to be engaged directly on, or immediately (185-190 degrees or so), past the 180. 

Edited by d_striker

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38 minutes ago, d_striker said:

 

 

I emailed Troy about this very thing a few months back.  His response was that the rule means targets should not be able to be engaged beyond the 180.  Whether you like it or not, DNROI's interpretation is final.

 

Well not really, The DNROI may petition the board and with their approval publish official rulings that are "Final" everything else is an opinion and does not carry the same authority.

 

He actually contradicts himself in the response, first saying that the rule does prohibit targets available beyond the 180 then modifying it to be only those close to the 180 are a issue and ones well beyond are OK. If they are prohibited by rule then he ran high level matches with illegal stages, if it is not a rule then he did not, he can't have it both ways.

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1 hour ago, MikeBurgess said:

Well not really, The DNROI may petition the board and with their approval publish official rulings that are "Final" everything else is an opinion and does not carry the same authority.

 

 

 

Yeah, you're right about that.

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I read that as short shorts, and was thinking what's the problem? As long as they're on the female persuasion. 

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