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High 'C' Prod Shooter - What Aspect of My Game Can Get Me to 'B'


TrackCage

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Looking for a little feedback here. I was able to listen in to some of the go-fast guys at the local match, but thought some of you could offer some tips as well. I started my USPSA journey in late-October and have shot 6-8 matches so far. I've come a long way (see my other videos), but clearly have some learning still to do. I shoot production with a G34, entirely stock except dawson sights. I am technically still unclassified, but am teetering between high 'C' and low 'B' when I do my part...

 

I do dry fire quite a bit, focus on transitions, draws, reloads, etc. I'm trying to work on my non-shooting items as well to gain some time there. I know this aspect needs some work.

 

I have included two videos. The first is one of my better performances from yesterday. The second is the classifier - which I would have been very pleased with - except I threw a shot into the hard cover on T1, which resulted in a low score. I don't think I went too fast there, I just think my eyes were drawn to what was different on that target (the black) and shot there. Really just a rookie move. I wasn't shooting so fast as to be shooting over my head, but you tell me.

 

Thanks in advance for any tips you can provide!

 

 

Classifier: Six

 

 

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Honestly, you're shooting looked smooth and like you were taking a comfortable pace to get solid hits.  I don't see a lot of low hanging fruit here.  Your target transitions could probably speed up and your movement in general looks like it could benefit from a "sense of urgency".  In other words, the moment you break the last shot, you should be exploding to the next position.  Looks like you're waiting both to move and transition until you've seen or heard that the previous shot was solid.  The two steel poppers on the second video could pretty much be shot with one decent sight picture and a solid "double tap" (I'm going to get in trouble for using that phrase, but I think you understand what I'm saying) at that distance.  You took a little extra time and made sure it was a solid hit.  That's all I can offer based off of those two videos and I have to say that it looked pretty good for someone who has been at it  for less than half a year.

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Thanks for the kind words, Pete. You can see I picked two videos where there was less footwork, as stages where I have to travel further look considerably slower...

 

I do notice a particular cadence that I fall into, rather than quicker follow-ups on close, easy shots and more focus on harder/risky shots. I definitely have some work to do there. An example of that would be the right-most array on the first video. Those three targets, although there is a no-shoot in the middle, are not tough shots. Yet I took an eternity to engage and slowwww splits. Keep the feedback coming!

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Your shooting pace is on par with a B class performance if you are hitting A zone hits the majority of the time. But your target to target transitions are killing your stage times. Sure you could physically transition between targets more aggressively. But the glaring thing that I do notice is how long your gun is lingering on the next target before you start shooting. Watch the classifier video for a good example. You transition off of the existing target pretty fast and get the gun on the next target fairly fast. But the gun is lingering on the next target for quite some time before you start shooting. Every one of those shooting delays costs you about 0.15 - 0.20 in lost stage time. You do that for 5 targets and that is easily a second lost in stage time.

 

This is usually an issue with what you are focusing on when transitioning to the next target. Most people will observe the sights while shooting, then look for and focus on the next target. They maintain this hard target focus until after the gun is on target then move their focus back to the sights to confirm they are aligned before breaking the shot. This target to sights focal change takes time and this is what the "delay" in your shooting looks like to me. But you need to analyze what you observe while shooting a stage to confirm or deny this assessment. 

 

To fix the target to sights focal delay you need to start looking for the sights just before the gun gets to the next target. Not after the gun is on target. 

 

The other thing that I noticed is how the gun muzzle flips within your stationary hands. If the gun can move independent of your hands then you are not gripping hard enough. If you want to "Shoot Faster" that isn't going to happen until you start gripping the gun a lot harder. At least not if you want to hit what you are shooting at.

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2 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

Your shooting pace is on par with a B class performance if you are hitting A zone hits the majority of the time. But your target to target transitions are killing your stage times. Sure you could physically transition between targets more aggressively. But the glaring thing that I do notice is how long your gun is lingering on the next target before you start shooting. Watch the classifier video for a good example. You transition off of the existing target pretty fast and get the gun on the next target fairly fast. But the gun is lingering on the next target for quite some time before you start shooting. Every one of those shooting delays costs you about 0.15 - 0.20 in lost stage time. You do that for 5 targets and that is easily a second lost in stage time.

 

This is usually an issue with what you are focusing on when transitioning to the next target. Most people will observe the sights while shooting, then look for and focus on the next target. They maintain this hard target focus until after the gun is on target then move their focus back to the sights to confirm they are aligned before breaking the shot. This target to sights focal change takes time and this is what the "delay" in your shooting looks like to me. But you need to analyze what you observe while shooting a stage to confirm or deny this assessment. 

 

To fix the target to sights focal delay you need to start looking for the sights just before the gun gets to the next target. Not after the gun is on target. 

 

The other thing that I noticed is how the gun muzzle flips within your stationary hands. If the gun can move independent of your hands then you are not gripping hard enough. If you want to "Shoot Faster" that isn't going to happen until you start gripping the gun a lot harder. At least not if you want to hit what you are shooting at.

Thanks for that detailed transition description. Eye opener for me. I didn't understand how people were getting sight focus so quickly until now.

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A little something you can start doing right away that will save you some time is to turn into your gun on turn and draw stages. It gets the pistol down range faster which will in turn allow you to draw it and get it pointed at the target sooner. Its a bunch of little efficiencies like that you can work into your game that will add up and save you seconds on some stages. Something to do in the future is take a class from one of the top shooters. Its like a light bulb coming on when they point out all the tricks they use to save time. Its nothing complicated, but they're things a lot of folks don't think about till someone points them out. You look like you're on the path. Keep at it, and good luck with your shooting.

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Thanks Charlie and Bill. All great feedback. I definitely want to take a class (hopefully in the next few months) before I'm ingraining bad habits that I'll have to correct. 

 

Charlie - what you are describing with transitions is my exact problem. The way you explain it makes perfect sense and something I will try to incorporate. Unfortunately it will be a while before I can get to another match, but now I have some things to work on in dry fire

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You need to go faster. This is how I learned what speed I needed to be going...

Set up some of the easier to set up classifiers, figure out what a 100% time is, assuming good hits, and force yourself to run it in that time.  You may not be able to even meet that par time and your hits will be all over the place, but forcing yourself to go faster is the first step in actually going faster.

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I'm no GM but I like analyzing match vids.  I'm a high B but will be a middle A tomorrow so take it for what it's worth.  

 

Stage 1 -  Not a lot to comment on.  

- I would have drawn  to the left array since you would be doing 2 things at once rather than draw to the array right in front of you, you'd be taking a step off the clock on your draw vs. standing idle while drawing.  

- you seem to leisurely rebuild your grip - dry fire some one step reloads

- paper were partials but were very low risk partials at a close distance, could have been a touch more aggressive on teh splits/transitions

 

Classifier - 

turn toward your gun, it's faster - put it on the clock and prove it to yourself, do 5 the way you turned and 5 turning toward your other side and see which way is quicker, I'm betting you're a tenth to a few tenths faster toward the gun. Sounds like you did it in 3.96 with all the points thats nearly an A class run, high hit factor appears to be about 2.94s - that's a 1.5s draw, (2) .22 splits (as fast as you can pull the trigger) with three .5s transitions.  All in all it wasn't bad but you turn the other way you probably would have been a middle A classifier

 

That ones really going to come down to your confidence on a turning draw and shooting steel.  

 

 

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Apart from transitions, which others have astutely pointed out, I noticed that you are very erect and upright in your shooting stance.  Getting lower and wider by bending at the knees (and maybe a little at the waist) will improve a lot of the elements of your game.  It will create a better shooting platform and allow you to explode out of position more efficiently.  It will also likely aid your transitions.  

 

There is a lot of tension in your upper torso (shoulders specifically) aka the tactical turtle.  Loosen up.  Tension is undesirable.

 

I recommend you start a dryfire program (or ramp it up, if you currently have one).  Dry fire is THE way to improve gun handling generally and will increase your confidence in your abilities when you arrive at the match.  Work on cultivating your "index" off the draw- meaning that your sights appear in alignment at the specific spot you're looking.  Also work on making your grip 100% reliable and repeatable.  These two elements go hand-in-hand.   

 

 

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1 hour ago, wtturn said:

Apart from transitions, which others have astutely pointed out, I noticed that you are very erect and upright in your shooting stance.  Getting lower and wider by bending at the knees (and maybe a little at the waist) will improve a lot of the elements of your game.  It will create a better shooting platform and allow you to explode out of position more efficiently.  It will also likely aid your transitions.  

 

There is a lot of tension in your upper torso (shoulders specifically) aka the tactical turtle.  Loosen up.  Tension is undesirable.

 

I recommend you start a dryfire program (or ramp it up, if you currently have one).  Dry fire is THE way to improve gun handling generally and will increase your confidence in your abilities when you arrive at the match.  Work on cultivating your "index" off the draw- meaning that your sights appear in alignment at the specific spot you're looking.  Also work on making your grip 100% reliable and repeatable.  These two elements go hand-in-hand.   

 

 

I hadn't given any thought to which way I turned. Turning right (away from the gun in my case) felt more natural. Definitely a good candidate for an A/B test. Let the timer do the talking.  I also bolded a section of your post that I feel I could definitely work on. When I draw the gun up, I often need to readjust the sights meaning I'm not bringing the gun to exactly where I am looking/want to be pointing.

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TrackCage> All of these forum suggestions are good, but they are no replacement for effective in person training. If you are serious about getting better in a short amount of time the best way to get there is by taking a one on one training class. Yes it will cost a significant amount of $$$ for this type of training but it will be worth every penny in time saved trying to figure it all out on your own.

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22 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

TrackCage> All of these forum suggestions are good, but they are no replacement for effective in person training. If you are serious about getting better in a short amount of time the best way to get there is by taking a one on one training class. Yes it will cost a significant amount of $$$ for this type of training but it will be worth every penny in time saved trying to figure it all out on your own.

I've already been researching Ben Stoeger's class in Sacramento in March. Unfortunately, it's full but I'm second on the waitlist. Fingers crossed. 

 

It's not one-on-one, I know... but it's a start. Thanks again for the tips. I checked out a few of your videos and you are certainly qualified to give tips/pointers. Good shootin'...

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1 hour ago, TrackCage said:

I've already been researching Ben Stoeger's class in Sacramento in March. Unfortunately, it's full but I'm second on the waitlist. Fingers crossed. 

 

It's not one-on-one, I know... but it's a start. Thanks again for the tips. I checked out a few of your videos and you are certainly qualified to give tips/pointers. Good shootin'...

 

You might also look at Ron Avery's competition handgun mastery class at St. George. https://www.tacticalperformancecenter.com/products/competition-handgun-mastery

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11 hours ago, nelson1each said:

I am a high C production shooter....wanna know how got to B class? I switched to Limited!? Less mag changes, no more planning stages around 8-10 rounds, major scoring....what's not to love! ?

Lol... thought crossed my mind, but here's the problem. I live in California. When the magazine law goes into effect later this year, it's likely that all current Limited shooters will become L-10 shooters. So yes, you get major scoring, but you still have to reload!

 

In all seriousness (and not a jab at you in any way), I still have so much to learn that a jump in division wouldn't make me any better of a shooter. My times/scores might look better due to major scoring, but it's sort of a false sense of improvement, IMO. I do think I'd like to play in Limited one day, but not today.

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Definitely work on gripping the gun harder (weak hand especially - literally as hard as you can without shaking) with dryfire reps all you can.

 

I shot matches for seven years before Ben Stoeger demonstrated his girl pressure with his hand on top of mine. It was at least triple the pressure I used, and the improvement was immediate.

 

It's been a pain to fix. Don't ingrain lazy shooting. Learn to crush the gun right away.

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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In both of the videos you posted you're easily fast enough to hang with B shooters. What the camera doesn't show is points. In minor scoring you have to shoot alphas, even on field courses. What is a typical breakdown of targets scored in a match for you (i.e. %A, %C, %D, %M, %NS)? 

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11 hours ago, taxil343 said:

In both of the videos you posted you're easily fast enough to hang with B shooters. What the camera doesn't show is points. In minor scoring you have to shoot alphas, even on field courses. What is a typical breakdown of targets scored in a match for you (i.e. %A, %C, %D, %M, %NS)? 

So to your point, I definitely still have some work to do to catch the top performers in the quality of their hits. The mike killed me, because of course, it was on the classifier.

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The guy above you had 2 more mikes, 4 more deltas and 7 less alphas, but he still barely beat you because his time was 11 seconds faster overall. I think if you are just able to decrease your stage times while maintaining the same (or better) accuracy that will be the low hanging fruit. Just accuracy will not do it.

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6 hours ago, TrackCage said:

So to your point, I definitely still have some work to do to catch the top performers in the quality of their hits. The mike killed me, because of course, it was on the classifier.

You shot 72% of a GM. If he's a real GM then you should be able to bump to B pretty easily. Is the classifier typically one of you worst stages?

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3 minutes ago, taxil343 said:

You shot 72% of a GM. If he's a real GM then you should be able to bump to B pretty easily. Is the classifier typically one of you worst stages?

It's not that the classifier is typically one of my worst, but something about knowing it counts for more lends itself to stupid errors. I have some room to grow in the mental game too. There's no reason to let it get to me and tank the stage, just because I know it's the one that counts.

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1 minute ago, TrackCage said:

It's not that the classifier is typically one of my worst, but something about knowing it counts for more lends itself to stupid errors. I have some room to grow in the mental game too. There's no reason to let it get to me and tank the stage, just because I know it's the one that counts.

If you can change this mindset you'll bump to B in no time. You can't think of the classifier as being different than any other stage. Don't think anything different and don't do anything different. Read, or listen to, the course of fire, walk through it, physically and mentally several times until you have a solid stage plan ingrained into your subconscious and when it is your turn to shoot, step into the box and shoot the stage. You'll be surprised how much better your classifier scores, and consequently your match scores will be. 

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