2017 Florida State

[rowdyb]

Anyone else here from the forum going? Insight into what the match or club has been like historically?

[Hi-Power Jack]

You can expect some tough stages - esp the Memory Stages

 

Very well run, at the range.

 

NOTHING else to do within 35 miles though -

 

Bring the kids to Disneyworld while you're playing with the Big Mice.     

[Balakay]

 "Memory Stages" are not allowed in IDPA.  

 

I will be there...it will be my first major IDPA match. I need to brush up on the new rulebook

[rowdyb]

i'm going to Cuba the day before the match actually. Sounds like they set tough stages, I'll turn off the spray and pray mode then, hahaha.

[Hi-Power Jack]

18 hours ago, Balakay said:

 "Memory Stages" are not allowed in IDPA.  

 

OOPS ...   Sorry, didn't see IDPA.  I was referring to their USPSA matches.

[Hitman321]

Went last year and going this year.  Challenging stages last year and it was pretty hot and humid.  I expect the same this year.  I ended up with a DNF since my IDPA "legal" Zev magwell didn't fit in the box on a G34.  Yes, I was pretty pissed but ultimately it was my fault for not verifying!  They are not releasing the stage cof descriptions ahead of the match this year which seems kind of strange to me.  I'm on squad 45.  Hope to see you there!

[rowdyb]

look for the red head in the Automatic Accuracy shirt and you've found me!

[theKenny]

rowdyb,

I will be  working the match.

I do not shoot much idpa

Here is a write up of last year's match

http://www.shoothtc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/TacJournalMay16001.pdf

The host club has put on the FL state match for several years going back to the early 00's

The new owner of the range has made tremendous improvements to it in the last  year.

Disclosure-i consider him a friend. The owner is also very active in IDPA at a higher level.

 

No idea on stages or what to expect other than the food should be good. :-)

If you are shooting  Sat Sun be aware there are roving packs of bicyclists on the roads around the range

Also there is usually a airshow courtesy of homestead air reserve base next door.

 

Some more info

http://www.shoothtc.com/

http://tssaidpa.us/wordpress/index.php/2017-florida-state-idpa-championship/

 

Any other questions feel free to ask

 

 

[Balakay]

Has anyone received any recent communication about logistics, a virtual shooter's brief, check-in times, etc ?

[rowdyb]

A few emails ago, yes.

 

From watching last year's match videos on YT, seeing the number of points down, them not releasing stage diagrams or letting you watch at all ahead of time a small "danger" buzzer has gone off in my brain. This is my "people are trying to be tricky beyond good measure"/"let's make it really hard on shooters"/"oh man, this is evil and will get 'em"/"since we can't have blind stages anymore then no one gets to see anything until the last second"/"we've always done it this way and like it" alarm.

 

Sometimes it's a false alarm but other times you leave a match just shaking your head. It looks like a lot of preparation goes into their matches and this will be my third match of the year in the new rules, first big match. So a lot of new things to be experiencing. Thanks for the info and see you there!

[Jim Watson]

Last Florida State I went to was up at Port Malabar.  Kind of a Gotcha shoot, so I am not surprised at your first paragraph. 

[spt1955]

Does anybody have any insight into what is going on in FL IDPA Championship?  I'm hearing that 20% of the participants got DQ'd.

[Balakay]

My squad of 10 had 2 DQs + 1 equipment failure ( my ambi safety was too tall for the box)

 

 One of the DQ's was due to an accidental discharge over the berm during a reload. The other was for sweeping the hand while opening a door .

 

From what I was told, a lot of the DQs were  on a stage that involved getting up from a bed, retrieving gun and ammo from bag, pulling a very awkwardly long fire alarm cord and then having to open a door.  Lots of potential hazards here 

[Jim Watson]

Video of that one at

 

[B_RAD]

Did the SO yell "muzzle"?

 

 

 

[Tarkeg]

Yep. "Muzzle" is still a warning.

[B_RAD]

4 hours ago, Tarkeg said:

Yep. "Muzzle" is still a warning.

I know. Just wondering why he gave it?

 

 

I guess the shooters muzzle was little high and could have been close to be pointed over the berm?  

 

 

[Jollymon32]

BORING!

Looks like the DQ's may have been because the participants fell asleep....

[rowdyb]

Ok, i got quite a few texts and emails about this. so here is my SOAP note:

 

subjective: as someone on the ground it didn't seem as bad as what it seems to be being made by people online. i would attend the match again if my schedule and interest in idpa at the time allowed it. i did see some things i thought were totally wrong and will list them below.

 

objective: i was 4th in ssp division and 12th overall. i shot a smoking raw time of 233 and twice the points down as the people who beat me, 67. i had two procedures and one non threat. half of my points down came from 6 misses. (ohhhhhh soo mad at myself for poor concentration!!) my squad started as 8 on paper and finished the match with only 5 shooters. i also saw my first issuance of a FP.

 

assessment: i think my point of view is coming not from sour grapes or the jubilation of winning so is fairly unbiased. of the things i heard about and  saw myself i'd say: there were no DQ traps.

the stages were very well built and designed, they withstood the weather and elements very well.

i did not hear nor attend a shooters safety meeting.

the match tshirt was very nice.

i chose not to pay for a lunch so have no idea about that.

paper scoring in 2017??

the variance in SO skill and understanding the rules is still there and it still effects the match and shooters.

the match started and finished on time.

the range was nice.

there was an inordinately high number of PE's abd DQ's and i think i know why. (see plan below)

 

plan: i'd recommend the abolishment of the dual color and/or dual material fault lines.

 

i'd also recommend the abolishment of the idea that the fault line itself is the "fault" and rather that the ground on the other side of the line is the fault.

these two above items would have provided the match with 80% less PE calls. there were over 500 of them! basically i think they had a good intent in what they did but it doesn't work and is contrary to how the majority of other clubs in the US, not just their region, are doing fault lines.

 

i'd almost say it is mandatory that local clubs make harder, more challenging matches. you are doing the people at your match a great disservice by dumbing things down in the name of safety, ease of set up or lack of imagination. you need to have prop manipulations that could result in sweeping. you need to have seated starts. you need to have shooting from a real vehicle. you need to have very obscured targets.

 

when you build your match to the lowest common denominator or shooting that is the type of competitor you'll create in your club. the types who cause 40 DQs at a match because their local club didn't prepare them.

[rowdyb]

now the scandalous "gossip".

 

-guy on my squad had a bullet pulled and weighed. he had 6 rounds shot over the chrono of which only one passed. should be done  right? nope. got another bullet pulled and weighed and then the other numbers made it so he passed. this is wrong. i like this guy, but he got a gimmie that was unfair.

 

-the FP on my squad was given shooting an entire array of targets while faulting the line. 5.2.2E does list as an example for an FP of "shooting an entire array while faulting the line". no definition of an array in the rule book. it was made up on the spot in my opinion that the definition of an array is 3 or more targets of equal priority. the md did approve it.

 

i think this needs to be addressed. one of my PE was for shooting two targets while faulting (or standing on the stick which i think they were wrong in building that way). couldn't two targets be an array? one target? carry this out to the absurdity point and then almost any foot fault could be a FP then.....

 

-i was the recipient of "you're wearing a jersey so i'll be a jerk to you" SO and "you're wearing a jersey so that really close -1 is a -0" SO. i tried to correct and deal with as many as i could. with a smile. and then while just standing to tape i saw the same thing as well to others. the human element at play.... i heard quite a bit of "i'm going to give you _____". please, don't give me anything. just accurately report what is on the target.

 

-we were told "if your barrel goes over the berm at any time, you are DQed". or we were told, "if your barrel goes over the prop wall you'll be DQed", oh wait then I was told "if you're gun is loaded and the barrel points over the berm you'll be DQ-ed". or the other time it was "if you reload like this (demonstrates) you'll be going home." So which one is it? this is something that should have been consistent and read exactly, not free styled.

 

-as usual, 1/3 the stages i was given the wrong range commands in one way or another.

 

-dd's on my squad were for sweeping on seated starts or muzzling hand while working a door. (which most had a very small latch on them. go with friction wheels people!) quite a few people think you can sweep your leg on the draw legally. wrong. page 4, 2.2A folks says it very clear.

 

-some people still think and loudly proclaim that you have to be using the old definition of 'cover' when you come up on a surprise target around a wall or something. if you think that, put a fault line there. no fault line, you can't give me a cover call or mandate where i can shoot it outside of where i can see it.

 

ok, that was a pretty scandalous post and i'll probably loose any sponsorship i have and get none in the future. so i'll end with something nice. =)

the people who were from the club and the people who "got it" were all super awesome. you can tell the really put a ton of care and effort into making great stages and a good match. it was very challenging and never felt silly or contrived to me at all. when people asked me there for my opinion i gave it, even when i could tell they didnt like it. and they were respectful.

 

THIS MATCH WAS GOOD! would i do some stuff differently? oh yeah. i'd not take some of those SO's back and i'd totally rechange how i did fault lines to match what the majority of other clubs are doing.

 

Ok, i'm ready to be burned now. please please please, i am not whinning or complaining or trying to start a fight or disrespect the people who put on the match. i smiled and had a fun time. this post is just some of the "behind the scenes" that some people asked about and i'm dumb enough to type it.

[B_RAD]

Rowdy,

 

I've been interested in hearing your account of the match. I didn't think it was overly critical or negative towards anyone. 

 

 

Now, my question for you is, how did you not get DQ'd at equipment check?  I've heard (on the internet) that one CZ shooter got DQ'd because he couldn't put the thumb safety on with the hammer down! He supposedly got a call from the AC or MD (can't remember) after the match and they told him he was wrongly DQ'd.  He was allowed to shoot but for no score. The call came after the first hour so his non score stood. He said he had a good match too. 

 

 

Not not sure if any of that is true but man would that suck!

[Jim Watson]

Due to health, weather, and recalcitrant MDs, I have shot only two good size T1 matches under 2017 2.0. 

I have seen none of the treatment described.

 

I will probably have an opportunity to shoot Fla. 2018; but will I after this and other reports? 

[rowdyb]

I repeat, it was a good match overall. As far as the testing my shooting goes, I'd say it was a great match.

 

There is some definite re-education needed for some of the SO's. On more than one issue. This would reduce the "huh? what just happened?" effect considerably. (I know it is hard to get volunteers, let alone start refusing ones because they don't meet a standard)

 

The white paint is in/touching the orange stick is a fault type of fault line should never ever been seen again in my opinion. This would totally fix the high number of PE calls.

 

The DQ's? I totally believe that fault lies with the shooters and the local clubs they shoot with.

[rowdyb]

33 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

Rowdy,

 

I've been interested in hearing your account of the match. I didn't think it was overly critical or negative towards anyone. 

 

 

Now, my question for you is, how did you not get DQ'd at equipment check?  I've heard (on the internet) that one CZ shooter got DQ'd because he couldn't put the thumb safety on with the hammer down! He supposedly got a call from the AC or MD (can't remember) after the match and they told him he was wrongly DQ'd.  He was allowed to shoot but for no score. The call came after the first hour so his non score stood. He said he had a good match too. 

 

 

Not not sure if any of that is true but man would that suck!

I have no knowledge of anyone else at equipment check other than myself and the couple people who were in line ahead of me.

 

I had zero issues at equipment check. Ammo, gear position, safeties or anything. My safety was tested by cocking the hammer back, activating the safety, pulling the trigger with normal pressure and the hammer not falling. Pass. That was it.

[cam1]

Where are the scores posted? Thanks