Dillon cam follower upgrade

[Dirtchevy841]

Has anybody changed over to the roller cam follower fir 650 that mark in Alaska makes. How did y'all change it out and get it right. Do you just measure where old follower was and just put roller to that or what. Let me know how y'all adjusted it. 

[Bkreutz]

I just put it the same depth. I worked so I left it there. I don't think it's a very critical measurement.

[amada8]

I have the roller cam pin.  Works fine (not sure if you really need one though).

The adjustment is not critical, but is important as the position of the cam ensures the new empty case's arrival at station one to be in sync..... or not.

[ScottyPotty]

Anyone try that one that bearing rotary shell plate cam follower?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dillon-XL-650-SL900-Bearing-rotary-shell-plate-cam-follower/222384485888?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40806%26meid%3Dd96fddf2ecda4507988babf8ef2d4aa9%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D321117491057

 

Edited January 24, 2017 by ScottyPotty

[StealthyBlagga]

I don't have the roller version, but adjustment of either type is, IMHO, critical. If the case arrives in station 1 too early, then it "snaps" into place when the shell plate indexes, causing unnecessary vibration (powder jumping out of cases etc.). It is worthwhile to invest time getting the height right.

[Dirtchevy841]

2 hours ago, ScottyPotty said:

Anyone try that one that bearing rotary shell plate cam follower?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dillon-XL-650-SL900-Bearing-rotary-shell-plate-cam-follower/222384485888?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40806%26meid%3Dd96fddf2ecda4507988babf8ef2d4aa9%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D321117491057

 

My buddy has one. Only reason you need it is when the Dillon piece gets wore out meaning after time and many 1000s of rounds there will be a wear track in the piece. Mark has made this so it will never wear down. I have all his other stuff except this. Just got the roller came because the Dillon one is starting to need more and more grease to run smoothly. Still works tho but rather have the press run smooth all the time. Are these parts necessary probably not but I do find the press is a lot smoother with them installed. Hope this cam follower makes it a little better. But as far as this piece I don't think it's really needed till the Dillon part develops the wear track in it. My buddy is well over 250,000 rounds on his 650 and you can tell it was needed. He could have went with Dillon part again but he wanted to try the bearing out. Personally I don't think it's needed. The Dillon part held up that long plus they'll send you one for free. I am around 100,000 rounds on mine and no wear at all. Just keep it lubed and it'll last a long time. My buddy is not the best at maintenance ? 

[amada8]

On 1/23/2017 at 5:38 PM, StealthyBlagga said:

I don't have the roller version, but adjustment of either type is, IMHO, critical.

Forgive me.  I am a mechanical engineer by trade and my critical dimensioning is measured to .0000

A complete spin of the cam pin WITH ROLLER will result in two positions where the roller is correctly aligned.  0/180º or 90°/270° depending on how you look at it....otherwise the roller is not rolling...but now dragging with no roller spin...not the intended purpose obviously.  I have found that there is a range of 2.5 complete turns that will get the case into Station 1 at the correct time to avoid snapping/jolting.  So you have 5 alignments (2.5 turns with 2 positions each full turn) that work properly.  5 is not a precise measurement....but it is CRITICAL that you get one of the five positions.

My mistaken verbiage.

 

Edited January 25, 2017 by amada8
To bold the area of this post that says the timing created by the camming pin is critical...... and there is slop in the precision needed when setting the timing.

[Henny]

14 hours ago, StealthyBlagga said:

I don't have the roller version, but adjustment of either type is, IMHO, critical. If the case arrives in station 1 too early, then it "snaps" into place when the shell plate indexes, causing unnecessary vibration (powder jumping out of cases etc.). It is worthwhile to invest time getting the height right.

I agree!  This is probably one of the most overlooked adjustments on the press and is a main cause of people's powder slinging complaints!

[Dirtchevy841]

13 hours ago, amada8 said:

Forgive me.  I am a mechanical engineer by trade and my critical dimensioning is measured to .0000

A complete spin of the cam pin WITH ROLLER will result in two positions where the roller is correctly aligned.  0/180º or 90°/270° depending on how you look at it....otherwise the roller is not rolling...but now dragging with no roller spin...not the intended purpose obviously.  I have found that there is a range of 2.5 complete turns that will get the case into Station 1 at the correct time to avoid snapping/jolting.  So you have 5 alignments (2.5 turns with 2 positions each full turn) that work properly.  5 is not a precise measurement....but it is CRITICAL that you get one of the five positions.

My mistaken verbiage.

 

Ok. So I am screwing in cam pin 2.5 turns from the start when I start screwing it in?  

[RDA]

14 hours ago, amada8 said:

Forgive me.  I am a mechanical engineer by trade and my critical dimensioning is measured to .0000

A complete spin of the cam pin WITH ROLLER will result in two positions where the roller is correctly aligned.  0/180º or 90°/270° depending on how you look at it....otherwise the roller is not rolling...but now dragging with no roller spin...not the intended purpose obviously.  I have found that there is a range of 2.5 complete turns that will get the case into Station 1 at the correct time to avoid snapping/jolting.  So you have 5 alignments (2.5 turns with 2 positions each full turn) that work properly.  5 is not a precise measurement....but it is CRITICAL that you get one of the five positions.

How much play is in this roller cam?

23 hours ago, amada8 said:

The adjustment is not critical, but is important as the position of the cam ensures the new empty case's arrival at station one to be in sync..... or not.

This seems contradictory to me, you say the adjustment isn't critical but the position is important for the case's arrival at station one to be in sync?

[Dirtchevy841]

To me to. I am just trying to find out how people put the thing in. Haven't heard how to yet. ?

[amada8]

I am saying there is some degree of slop built into the use of a roller camming pin....as there is when using the stock Dillon pin.

Start by adjusting per Dillon 650XL manual and having several cases in the feeder.  Pull handle to bring a case down to shellplate level.  As you raise the handle and the shell plate rotates....SLOW DOWN and watch when the case enters the slot in the shellplate.  Too early and the case will "ride" the outside of the shellplate.....then SNAP in place.

Rotate the camming pin a full turn and pull the handle down, then up.  Again slow down to watch the case.  Rinse and repeat until you have the case entering the slot without it riding on the outside of the shellplate.  (don't forget to remove the first case once it has rotated to Station 2)

The difference between stock Dillon and roller cam is the adjustments can not be precise with the roller cam because you only have half turn increments.  Dillon's can be micro adjustments.  Fortunately you do not need micro adjustments.  You can keep the roller set to the beginning of perfect entry or the end of perfect entry....and from my memory, this was two and a half full turn options.

btw, I now double nut lock my roller cam.

 

Get this timing set correctly, add the bearing and you can FLY through 1000 cartridges without spilling a flake of powder.

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2017 by amada8

[RDA]

9 minutes ago, amada8 said:

I am saying there is some degree of slop built into the use of a roller camming pin.

Start by adjusting per Dillon 650XL manual and having several cases in the feeder.  Pull handle to bring a case down to shellplate level.  As you raise the handle and the shell plate rotates....SLOW DOWN and watch when the case enters the slot in the shellplate.  Too early and the case will "ride" the outside of the shellplate. 

Rotate the camming pin a full turn and pull the handle down, then up.  Again slow down to watch the case.  Rinse and repeat until you have the case entering the slot without it riding on the outside of the shellplate.  (don't forget to remove the first case once it has rotated to Station 2)

The difference between stock Dillon and roller cam is the adjustments can not be precise with the roller cam because you only have half turn increments.  Dillon's can be micro adjustments.  Fortunately you do not need micro adjustments.  You can keep the roller set to the beginning of perfect entry or the end of perfect entry....and from my memory, this was two and a half full turn options.

btw, I now double nut lock my roller cam.

I see we are talking about two different things.  I was thinking about the cam follower for the shell plate (picture above)? You appear to be talking about the cam follower for the case shuttle (station #1).  I was thinking this thread was in reference to the one pictured above but rereading the original post, I am not certain while one was being asked about originally..

[amada8]

Oh my.... didn't know there was a roller option for THAT part.  The word roller got me off track.  Sorry for the derail.

Edited January 25, 2017 by amada8

[amada8]

On 1/22/2017 at 10:37 AM, Dirtchevy841 said:

Has anybody changed over to the roller cam follower fir 650 that mark in Alaska makes. How did y'all change it out and get it right. Do you just measure where old follower was and just put roller to that or what. Let me know how y'all adjusted it. 

As to the part in the picture, I assume this is adjusted left or right...... to get the primer push pin centered in the shellplate slot at station 2.  Height is fairly static on the Dillon...so I would assume the same for this replacement.

Edited January 25, 2017 by amada8