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Downsides/upsides of to many divisions???


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We are starting 3 gun at my club. I'm not really sure of what to do for divisions. I don't want to turn anyone away but I also don't know if having a hundred different divisions will be a bad thing. 

We are definitely going to have 

Tac ops

Heavy

Open

Limited 

And irons. 

A few things I'm not sure about is if we can combine limited and irons. Then if we should have some sort of PCC division too? 

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I agree that irons and red dots should shoot together in Limited.

Do not succumb to the pressure of having two Heavy divisions (e.g. HM Limited and HM Scope). To quote Kelly Neal, "Heavy Metal should be one small division, not two tiny ones".

Edited by StealthyBlagga
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35 minutes ago, Flatland Shooter said:

Once again, PCC is left out in the cold.

The local 3GN club includes PCC and another nearby club indicated they are considering it.

Competitors can use a PCC in Limited, Tactical or Open Divisions in our 3-gun matches.  Why do you need a PCC specific division?

Edited by Rookie
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I've started up

Var is variable or fixed mag optics

1x red dots and iron guys

heavy 308. Anything optic

open. Run what you brung.

everyone pretty much runs 1x and tactical so the 308 guys don't really bitch much but they do have to pump gun and 45 it. 

Open is mostly mag fed shotgun guys 

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1 hour ago, Flatland Shooter said:

Once again, PCC is left out in the cold.

As it should.  A PCC is a possible replacement for a pistol, not a rifle.  3 gun and 2 gun are not pistol sports; shooting at distance are expected parts of the game.

Since it's impractical to carry a PCC and a RCC, 2 gun and 3 gun should rightfully ignore PCC and expect everyone to use a conventional pistol.

Putting rifle targets closer and substituting PCC for rifle is not practical, because, as stated before, a PCC is a pistol replacement at best, not a rifle.

Just because it's long and looks like a rifle doesn't mean it is a rifle.  It's just a pistol with a long barrel.

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I can see the attraction of the 3GN approach of allowing PCC as an alternative to pistol, and it might even make for some interesting choices on certain stages. However, the vast majority of the time in a "real" 3-gun match a PCC would be the gun of choice (over a pistol), meaning that now everyone would have to bring FOUR guns to each match. For most 3-gunners, that would be a painful development, both in terms of cost and crap to be hauled to the match (putting those that fly at a significant competitive disadvantage).

Maybe allow PCC instead of pistol in Open Division, where the difference in capability is smallest? Some matches allow PCC as an extra option in Trooper Division.

I'm not sure I am a fan of this idea, but I guess I am open to persuasion.

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12 hours ago, tanks said:

Might be hard to make those distance shots though.

Every weapon platform has limitations.  If 25% of the shots in a match are over 150 yards... then a PCC may not be the reasonable choice for "rifle".  I select Heavy Metal division for many matches and a 308 Win and pump shotgun is not optimal for short range hoser matches, but it is the choice I make.  My main point is/was that PCC is legal for the "Rifle" component of many 3-Gun matches.

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Heck, I recall hitting steel out to 300 yards and beyond with my H&K 94.......Oh wait, that was my H&K 91....or was it my H&K 93?

Anyway that was back when any of them cost $289 retail.

You see, we've had this "PCC" path for many years, most have just followed the path home....

Feather AT-9, IMI UZI carbine, H&K 94, Colt 9mm, Marlin Camp 9 & Camp 45, Fox Carbine......anyone recognize these names????

ericm

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I used to shoot a carbine match that would allow PCC in their minor optics or minor iron divisions. It was mostly bay shooting with a couple of long range stages. It was scored time plus, PCC had to shoot each target 3x to neutralize (normal carbine was 1 A/B or 2 anywhere). While you could shoot your PCC, not too many did.

Hurley 

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15 hours ago, louu said:

Lots of good info in this thread thanks guys. 

We will combine limited and iron and no PCC. 

I would suggest you adopt one of the well-established rules sets - the rules and requirements will be familiar to more of your customers, and you will not have to deal with holes in the rules that can lead to conflict with range lawyers. Consider USPSA or IMA rules, both of which are comprehensive and spell out the division requirements very clearly.

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  • 4 weeks later...

We do 3GN division rules, but we don't have all of their divisions:

Factory - shoot irons if you want 

Practical

Unlimited

Heavy Optics - shoot irons if you want

PCC - shoot irons if you want

 

This covers everybody in only 5 divisions and unless you are shooting with irons you are at no disadvantage in your division.

 

If you are shooting irons and don't like getting beat by a guy shooting a red dot, go buy a red dot.

Edited by ClaytonWelch
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We don't allow Heavy metal as we have only 100 yard max and it beats up our steel. Otherwise werun...

Tac-Optic

Tac-Iron

Open

PCC_Optic

PCC-Iron

 

We have in the past, prior to PCC run a pump SG division, but the requests for that fell off.

 

We reserve the right to place you in the next best division but rarely do. Not really fair if one guy shoots PCC-Optic and the rest shoot Iron if he smokes them.

 

Keep in mind, it is a Club Match. Poll your members and see what they really want, then adjust after they show up and actually shoot.

 

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