Why is is so hard to get people to try USPSA?

[9x45]

On 1/19/2017 at 11:16 AM, bsand said:

Yeah I probably would have been dq'd if I tried shooting a uspsa match with the holster I had (iwb) for my carry gun.



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No, actually not. You can run a IWB holster, even appendix, in Open, Limited, or L10, because holster position is not restricted. You can also shoot from concealment because there is no rule against it. Now if you have never shot any USPSA competition at all, and show up with that rig, yeah, safety briefing time and you will probably be told to run a standard holster. 

[Blueridge]

(This may have been covered earlier in this thread, so I apologize) I have found that some want to be proficient/competitive/accomplished at USPSA before they break their first shot in the sport on a stage. They want to "perfect the art" of the sport before they even begin, and that is not going to happen for most people.

 

With any sport you will have no idea how well (or where) you stand by comparison until you actually do it. Nor do you know how much enjoyment you can get from participation.

 

Some cannot get mentally or emotionally out of their own way enough to try the sport. Given how much enjoyment I get form participating in the sport, I find that to be a sad state of affairs.  

Edited April 3, 2018 by Blueridge

[SCinTX]

My 16 year old, who is a passionate USPSA shooter, points out that we hang around for four hours to shoot five minutes!  

But in fact he loves the hanging around bit, as well as the shooting.

[theWacoKid]

1 hour ago, SCinTX said:

My 16 year old, who is a passionate USPSA shooter, points out that we hang around for four hours to shoot five minutes!  

But in fact he loves the hanging around bit, as well as the shooting.

 

This is why the mindset of a USPSA shooter is a bit unique.  You either need to enjoy the hang out/camaraderie of the sport or the structured competitive aspect.  In terms of just burning ammo, it's not efficient.  But if you need a competitive outlet, it's perfect. 

[lawboy]

People have fragile egos. People are lazy. People prefer constructing social media personas that hide these facts.  People are not interested in the hard and humbling work needed to actually excel at shooting.

[Eureka1911]

The simple truth is that most people are not interested in competing, in anything. Everything I have ever competed in has had numerous similar threads. "Why is it so hard to get people to compete in <Fill in the Blank> ?"

 

 

[usmc1974]

USPSA. The is for practical, 90% of the gun they see are anything but, practical. Neither are the COF... Just saying

 

[MikeBurgess]

Imagine how hard it would be to get people to golf if the average Joe went out and shot a 350 their first round. That's like shooting at 20% where many shooters first match or two ends up.

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[Mcfoto]

No kidding. I remember starting and thinking I’d be a C shooter in a year. Three years later and I’m still in the mid 30s. You also have to be sociable (at least not a dick) and be willing to pitch in. Like pointed out above, you spend a lot of time between shooting. Best be a decent squad mate. If all you care about is your own performance, this isn’t your game.

[SweetToof]

As stated before I think a lot of people are pro-2A but not really pro-shooting.

 

I think a lot of people see themselves as being adequately skilled for their idea of what a self-defense shooting would be like. We've all heard the old adages about the average distance of self-defense shootings, myths about home defense and so on.

 

I know I personally got into USPSA with a defensive mind set. Used to just put holes in paper, shoot some steel but sort of plateaued because I though I was "good enough." Then I watched some videos, shot a match and realized how little I knew. 

 

Also trying to get some buddies into Steel Challenge as it's simple, they have the gear already and generally more laid back at least at my local matches compared to local USPSA.    

[GunBugBit]

There's the phenomenon of people going to the indoor range every couple of weeks, shooting 50 rounds in slow fire and getting hits somewhere on the paper, and thinking they're ready for whatever they might need a gun for.   They aren't keen on finding out how little they've even scratched the surface.

[usmc1974]

6 hours ago, GunBugBit said:

There's the phenomenon of people going to the indoor range every couple of weeks, shooting 50 rounds in slow fire and getting hits somewhere on the paper, and thinking they're ready for whatever they might need a gun for.   They aren't keen on finding out how little they've even scratched the surface.

I think your right. Lol some times I kid them not a bad pattern for a shotgun on a B27 target

 

[Dpolk]

In my area many people think of it as a police and military thing, they do not understand that most of the people I shoot with are civilian like me. It is great training for anyone who carries a gun

[Nalle2491]

I got into USPSA and tried to get my mom to come join me. She carries her gun everywhere she goes but literally never practices. Ill put it this way, if someone did start a shooting around her, id rather be closer to the shooter than to her. I took her along with me to a match and she seemed like she really enojyed it. Her excuse to never want to do it herself was, "the ammo would just cost to much to shoot like that."

[HalfBastard]

I had to get myself into it -  I wasn't lucky enough to have a friend trying to drag me out to matches.  But time and money are limiting factors to all of the friends I ask about it.  They're all shooters, but they won't even come out to shoot my production rig with free ammo.  This hobby is an expensive one - to compete at any reasonable level requires hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars in ammunition every year, not to mention equipment and match fees.  

 

I'm hooked, so I'm not complaining.  But when a new shooter looks at getting involved in this sport, 4-figure pricetags can be a huge deterrent.

[CHA-LEE]

Cost is all relative to priorities. The average Non-shooter easily spends 4 figures a year on any one of the following .... Coffee, eating out, junk food, booze, or tobacco products. And none of these activities would even be considered “hobbies”.

 

Practical shooting costs about the same as any other hobby. So the “Its expensive” excuse is unfounded. Sure it’s expensive if you compare it to doing nothing instead. But then again doing anything in that example is expensive in comparison. 

 

The hardest thing to convince people of is the value in participating in the practical shooting sports. The bare bones value can be linked to honing Firearms Marksmanship skills in dynamic environments. Practical shooting sports are one of the very few activities that can produce a perform under pressure with a firearm scenario without joining the military or law enforcement. 

 

Some people find value in that and others don’t. It’s very hard to force feed the value of this onto people who don’t care about it. 

[flamatrix99]

I am one of those guys you are talking about. I tried USPSA. I shot a handful of local matches and even a Level 2 match. I sucked at it. D Class shooter. It is a lot of time and money to invest. I didn't see the fun in it like others said they had. The USPSA guys go to a practice on a weeknight and then go to a match on the weekends. Plus driving 1-3 hours to get to/from the match.

 

Thats more like an all day job on a weekend. I still have my belts, mag pouches, race holster, mags and STI Edge. I can't seem to bring myself to sell that gun.

I did it because my friends were. Matter of fact, four of us shot together and now only one is left shooting USPSA. I even quit shooting altogether for several years. I have recently picked it up again and also started reloading again. (I hate buying ammo) I am currently shooting a Glock Indoor Match series. It is way more laid back and no running and gunning. A group just had their first IDPA match not to far from here and I may go and try to shoot that.

 

And I think you guys are correct. Most gun owners like own guns but not shooting all the time....

[flamatrix99]

On 6/8/2018 at 9:09 PM, usmc1974 said:

I think your right. Lol some times I kid them not a bad pattern for a shotgun on a B27 target

 

I was at one of the local ranges and a LEO gun guy was trying to help his two friends (LEOs obviously not gun guys) get ready for their annual re-qualification. I am no shooting stud by any measure but I do decent. These guys looked like they hit a B-27 with a 9mm shotgun. I couldn't believe it. They saw me shooting and asked if I was in law enforcement and I said no I am just a guy that likes to shoot.

[touji]

13 hours ago, HalfBastard said:

I had to get myself into it -  I wasn't lucky enough to have a friend trying to drag me out to matches.  But time and money are limiting factors to all of the friends I ask about it.  They're all shooters, but they won't even come out to shoot my production rig with free ammo.  This hobby is an expensive one - to compete at any reasonable level requires hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars in ammunition every year, not to mention equipment and match fees.  

  

I'm hooked, so I'm not complaining.  But when a new shooter looks at getting involved in this sport, 4-figure pricetags can be a huge deterrent.

 

I also had to get myself into it as none of my other friends competed. I've also tried to bring some friends out to shoot my rig and ammo for free to try it out, but none of them do. I wonder what it is... 

 

When I first started, I actually never practiced and just shot matches instead of going to the range. Didn't cost me much more than going to an indoor range and I think it's a fun way to shoot guns for people who aren't even looking to get super competitive. 

[sfinney]

Some people are gun collectors... some are shooters.... some do both. An interest in guns, and plinking, does not always translate to "extreme sports" like IPSC/USPSA  

 

I think a big part is the fear of being judged, or having the "wrong" equipment.... they see pictures in magazines of people holding $6K open guns and think that's not for them. I have had success in getting people with a Beretta or Hipower or 1911 or a stock M&P to come shoot (or at least watch). And guess what happens? 

 

They either observe (or many start telling them in helpful way), they need better holster gear (a few hundred dollars worth) and how they can fix up their current gun, or the gun they need to "be competitive" (Production? You need a big heavy CZ Shadow 2 or Stock 2/3.... and a few hundred dollars of tuning etc.)

 

Carry optics - that Glock MOS is a dog, you need a 44 ounce Sig X-Five with 15 ounces of weight added in secret places, or a CZ Shadow 2 with a grand of mil-work to make weight....oh, and the factory 21 round mags that came with your gun just plain suck, you NEED 23 round mags or don't bother.

 

Limited / Open? There are 3 or 4 builders dejour right now (2011s or CZ based) that are the ticket, and you need get on their 1 year  wait list, and plunk down a few thousand dollars, or you just wont be competitive...… 

 

Sometimes we are our own worst enemy..... I remember the death of Slot Car racing back in the 60's / 70's - wasn't that it wasn't fun, its that the perception was if you didn't buy a custom hand wound motor or scratch built chassis, or the most expensive tires, and had several hundred dollars in just the car (never mind your high end controller?) you couldn't be competitive, so why bother? Guess what ? Driving the car still mattered too, but know one would give it chance or quit after a race or two because of that gear snob effect. They just saw the guys with that gear winning, and not the years of practice and technique in getting to that point. In USPSA every time we make a Division that is supposed to stop or reduce the gear wars, it still a race to get the best gear that meets the rules, barely. And if what you like doesn't meet the rules? We vote someone else in charge and get the rules changed. 

[HalfBastard]

1 hour ago, touji said:

 

I also had to get myself into it as none of my other friends competed. I've also tried to bring some friends out to shoot my rig and ammo for free to try it out, but none of them do. I wonder what it is... 

 

When I first started, I actually never practiced and just shot matches instead of going to the range. Didn't cost me much more than going to an indoor range and I think it's a fun way to shoot guns for people who aren't even looking to get super competitive. 

I did the same thing, until I made some friends in the sport.  I got tired of finishing in the bottom third, so my time and money commitment had to increase.  I definitely enjoyed it as anew way to shoot guns initially, though.  After so much time standing still at a square range and punching paper, running around outside and trying to go fast was an incredible change.

[touji]

2 hours ago, sfinney said:

...
 

I think a big part is the fear of being judged, or having the "wrong" equipment.... they see pictures in magazines of people holding $6K open guns and think that's not for them. I have had success in getting people with a Beretta or Hipower or 1911 or a stock M&P to come shoot (or at least watch). And guess what happens? 

 

They either observe (or many start telling them in helpful way), they need better holster gear (a few hundred dollars worth) and how they can fix up their current gun, or the gun they need to "be competitive" (Production? You need a big heavy CZ Shadow 2 or Stock 2/3.... and a few hundred dollars of tuning etc.)

...

 

This definitely resonates with me. I've definitely made a lot of mental steps to take when recommending gear to people as they start and/or when they ask for advice because I was also in the camp of "you need to do this, you need to do that" when other players would ask gear questions. 

 

1 hour ago, HalfBastard said:

I did the same thing, until I made some friends in the sport.  I got tired of finishing in the bottom third, so my time and money commitment had to increase.  I definitely enjoyed it as anew way to shoot guns initially, though.  After so much time standing still at a square range and punching paper, running around outside and trying to go fast was an incredible change.

 

Even after my gear changed, I was still finishing bottom third until I started to practice a little more I have observed, though, that as people get bit by the bug, they tend to liquidate all of their other hobbies in order to fund better gear. I think it's only natural that as you focus in on a hobby, things like time and money dedicated to other hobbies gets focused into the gear. There would be no way I could afford to shoot the gear that I do if I hadn't completely cut back on a ton of other things I used to do. I think it's important to keep budgets in mind when giving gear advice as "buy once cry once" does not always apply. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by touji

[HalfBastard]

1 hour ago, touji said:

 

This definitely resonates with me. I've definitely made a lot of mental steps to take when recommending gear to people as they start and/or when they ask for advice because I was also in the camp of "you need to do this, you need to do that" when other players would ask gear questions. 

 

 

Even after my gear changed, I was still finishing bottom third until I started to practice a little more I have observed, though, that as people get bit by the bug, they tend to liquidate all of their other hobbies in order to fund better gear. I think it's only natural that as you focus in on a hobby, things like time and money dedicated to other hobbies gets focused into the gear. There would be no way I could afford to shoot the gear that I do if I hadn't completely cut back on a ton of other things I used to do. I think it's important to keep budgets in mind when giving gear advice as "buy once cry once" does not always apply. 

I'm 100% guilty of giving bad gear advice.  I have a bad tendency to push "optimal" gear, like the big metal DA/SA guns, DAA gear, etc.  I need to remember that I still enjoyed my first few matches with crappy gear and the 9mm I already had anyway.

[touji]

17 hours ago, HalfBastard said:

I'm 100% guilty of giving bad gear advice.  I have a bad tendency to push "optimal" gear, like the big metal DA/SA guns, DAA gear, etc.  I need to remember that I still enjoyed my first few matches with crappy gear and the 9mm I already had anyway.

 

True that. Before I cared about placing, I was shooting single stack major with some uncle mike pouches. It was incredibly fun, but once I started to get the bug to go fast, single stack was too hard for an aspiring noob. 

[HalfBastard]

2 hours ago, touji said:

 

True that. Before I cared about placing, I was shooting single stack major with some uncle mike pouches. It was incredibly fun, but once I started to get the bug to go fast, single stack was too hard for an aspiring noob. 

The gear wall to get into single stack was what kept me from trying USPSA out almost 10 years earlier. I was so convinced I needed all this top of the line gear to even show up, I never gave it a chance.