Why is is so hard to get people to try USPSA?

[theWacoKid]

17 minutes ago, 9x45 said:

What is an example of an "extra" safety rule? Any shooter has to be safe enough to follow simple rules, whether it's local action, USPSA/IDPA/Steel Challenge or 3 Gun.

I agree with you and I do see "USPSA like" matches as a bit of a rip off.  I'm guessing his extra safety rules are club rules like no muzzle pointing over a berm at any time including during a reload.  You can't have these type of club rules and host a sanctioned USPSA match so there are issues there.

Personally, I minimize my attendance at non-sanctioned matches that are "like" something sanctioned.  To me there's importance in the guidelines and knowns of a match with an official affiliation.

Edited December 28, 2016 by theWacoKid

[9x45]

Waco, I'm with you. It's either a Nationally Sanctioned match, or it's a club level match. We run sanctioned USPSA and SASS Cowboy and West Coast Steel Challenge. In addition we have two action pistol matches, and 3 club level steel.

[zzt]

9x45, some of the additional safety rules are no running with a loaded gun (must have magwell empty and slide locked back before you move) and no jacketed bullets on steel.  BTW, very, very few regular USPSA shooters participate because of the extra rules.  I don't really care.  I figure if I/we teach our shooters the "official" rules, they are better served when they do decide to compete in sanctioned matches.

[Shmella]

11 minutes ago, zzt said:

9x45, some of the additional safety rules are no running with a loaded gun (must have magwell empty and slide locked back before you move) and no jacketed bullets on steel.  BTW, very, very few regular USPSA shooters participate because of the extra rules.  I don't really care.  I figure if I/we teach our shooters the "official" rules, they are better served when they do decide to compete in sanctioned matches.

This sounds like how I vision Idpa to be like... Unenjoyable. ( FYI I know literally nothing about idpa and dont ever plan on learning)

[tanks]

32 minutes ago, zzt said:

9x45, some of the additional safety rules are no running with a loaded gun (must have magwell empty and slide locked back before you move) and no jacketed bullets on steel.  BTW, very, very few regular USPSA shooters participate because of the extra rules.  I don't really care.  I figure if I/we teach our shooters the "official" rules, they are better served when they do decide to compete in sanctioned matches.

I wouldn't participate either, the no running with a loaded gun seems antithesis a USPSA match and I can't see how you could say you have "USPSA style" matches. The only thing that seems common is shooting bullets down range.

[zzt]

You "purists" are missing the point.  My experiment this year resulted in positive results for USPSA and next for SC.  You piss and moan that you can't beg someone to "join you" in USPSA shooting, just because you asked.  What a surprise!  I'll posit that I run great USPSA "like" matches that require more gun handling skills than USPSA does, within club rules.  Nobody complains.  Attendance grows.  I've already added more to USPSA and SC ranks than you "purists", so where's the beef? 

[StealthyBlagga]

At our monthly 3-Gun matches we run a mandatory new shooter orientation for all newbies. We think this calms a lot of "first match" nerves. After completion (about 30 mins) the newbies can shoot the match.

Importantly, we assign an experienced competitor to hold their hands through their first match... help them avoid safety infractions, offer stage planning guidance, debrief after each stage with constructive criticism and positive reinforcement, answer any questions they have etc.

Since starting this "mentoring" program, we have noted a marked uptick in retention. 

[pskys2]

23 hours ago, theWacoKid said:

I agree with you and I do see "USPSA like" matches as a bit of a rip off.  I'm guessing his extra safety rules are club rules like no muzzle pointing over a berm at any time including during a reload.  You can't have these type of club rules and host a sanctioned USPSA match so there are issues there.

Personally, I minimize my attendance at non-sanctioned matches that are "like" something sanctioned.  To me there's importance in the guidelines and knowns of a match with an official affiliation.

IPSC World Shoot in the Philipines had just such a rule.  Looking at the photos showed houses, and people, just above the berms.  

[tanks]

12 hours ago, zzt said:

... I'll posit that I run great USPSA "like" matches that require more gun handling skills than USPSA does, within club rules.  ...

Can you elaborate on the "more gun handling skills than USPSA does"? So far from what you have stated one does NOT have to worry about going in and out of shooting positions efficiently, NO shooting on the move, NO reloads on the move, NO draws on the move etc.. What extra skills have you incorporated?

[Bdh821]

I feel like all my shooting friends are intimidated. They talk to me about guns all the time, yet come up with tons of excuses on why they won't try USPSA. Maybe it's because I show them videos of me shooting at matches and they see my crazy skillz. This is where you're supposed to laugh.

[TK66]

I can't wait to shoot my first USPSA or USPSA style match!

[9x45]

On 12/28/2016 at 0:36 PM, zzt said:

9x45, some of the additional safety rules are no running with a loaded gun (must have magwell empty and slide locked back before you move) and no jacketed bullets on steel.  BTW, very, very few regular USPSA shooters participate because of the extra rules.  I don't really care.  I figure if I/we teach our shooters the "official" rules, they are better served when they do decide to compete in sanctioned matches.

Well, it sounds to me like your match should be called the "Not Like USPSA Match"  And those are not anyone's "official" rules, they are you club level rules that will only mess up newbies who go to a any sanctioned match, USPSA/IDPA/Steel Challenge or 3 gun. Did do you DQ'd at your first USPSA match?  

We get between 100 and 150 at our club level matches, and almost none of those go on to shoot USPSA because they like the match the way it is, but we do not knock off the USPSA organization and call it USPSA like. Your club will most likely get a cease and desist letter from USPSA.org because of a card carrying USPSA member who showed up and said "What? This is not a USPSA match, WTF?"

 

 

[FWSixgunner]

I have run into the same thing.  I think it comes down to most gun people like guns not shooting.  A active USPSA shooter shots more in one month and most shooters do all year as far as round count goes.  Also people don't like to look bad in front of others and are afraid they wont do well.

Yep. And I think a lot of them are afraid to perform on a clock in front of others.

I stopped playing golf on the weekends because the rounds took too long and my wife got angry.

Shooting a USPSA match is not much different.  Many prospective new shooters do not want to commit 5+ hours to a match

Also true. My wife doesn't get angry, but I have a 14 yo at home. I wish he was interested in shooting with me, but he's not, and I want to spend as much time as possible with him before he's grown. He is in to every sport imaginable, so much of my free time is taken. Besides, much as I love shooting, I love watching him play baseball even more.

I shoot one Saturday match and two indoor/weeknight IDPA matches per month.

[9x45]

Well, back to the question... The competition shooting world is basically invisible to the average casual shooter. We hoser's know it's all around us, and shoot 6-8 times a month, and know every club and event within a 3 hour drive, and every gun forum and every venue and schedule Nationals and Areas around our vacation days. And honestly, how many casual shooters do hoser's know? I mean, I don't, everyone I know is a hoser, and has always been a hoser. I never to indoor ranges, and the shooters that I see at CCW qualification, every 2 years, are no one I want around me with a loaded gun. I don't go to gun stores or gun shows for anything I need, it's all internet for supplies or private party for guns. We used to get a few newbies at our local 3 guns from the 3 Gun Nation TV show, but it kinda of overwhelmed them because they had no previous action pistol experience. Like I said earlier, our clubs have very well attended club level matches, kinda of easy and fun, but only one or two go on to USPSA, and most say it's too hard, as in not fun. It takes discipline, training, and practice to do well. I think because it doesn't come easy, and newbies are easily intimidated, they just can't make the commitment. You only get out of this game what you put into it. At the end of the day, I think it's like riding a motorcycle. The first time you twisted the throttle you knew it was for you. 

Perhaps the USPSA/IDPA/Steel Challenge and 3 Gun organization bosses and chiefs should ask themselves the question....

[Chris iliff]

Over the years I've tried to get as many recruits as possible to shoot USPSA.  Of the many, many "try's",...I've had one success. 

I find that the money and time argument is a solid excuse that seems reasonable, but I believe that "ego" and fear of "failure" is the biggest enemy. 

For some, there are certain skills that are almost impossible to talk about truthfully.

Shooting is one such skill.  

For some reason every single red blooded male is a natural shot and has a story to prove it.

Until, they witness a typical USPSA shooter practice or shoot. USPSA is an ego crushing, demoralizing, truth teller of shooting skills.  A mid C shooter makes the typical gun enthusiast take stock.  When they witness B level skills..........game over.  B shooters demonstrate skill level that blows the mind of your average Joe.  

I'm almost convinced that downplaying the whole adventure might net more shooters. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Chris iliff

[9x45]

 USPSA is an ego crushing, demoralizing, truth teller of shooting skills.  

Yes, that's why it's so much fun to demoralize your shooting buddies, and have them live with shame of screwing up until the next time. You have a man on fire run, and all you get is big yea!    all forgotten by the next stage...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you have a man on fire run a

[zzt]

Well, some of you may be right about the ego and fear of failure, but I don't see a lot of it.  I started shooting USPSA because I fell in love with the outlaw matches at the club.  Essentially, I was recruited by friend who also shot at the club.  I was advised to pay attention to the rules, safe gun handling, etc. and not worry about scores or times until I learned the ropes.  That's exactly what I did.

Now about ego, etc.:  at the last USPSA match at one club last year, they were making squad assignments and the two ROs running one squad were asked if they would take a few new shooters.  They said they didn't think it a good idea, because once they saw them shoot they would be disappointed with their times.  Both ROs were Open Masters.  They changed their minds and said to give them all the new shooters.  You know what?  No one was disappointed.  Most were impressed.  All learned a lot, just by watching.  I shoot with one of them fairly often now, and every time I do I learn something else about approaches to a stage.

BTW, all of those "new" shooters showed up for matches this year, so they couldn't have been very intimidated.  They all seem to be aiming towards getting better, and not so worried about score.

[MHicks]

Of course you don't witness the effect ego has on people not shooting matches because a huge percentage of them never show up. So nothing to see. Some shoot their first match, don't like the result, and they're done.

Some shooters, myself included, show up at their first match without any big expectations about their result.  It was new to me and i don't make a bunch of assumptions about something I don't know about. I had fun and wanted to improve. Now I shoot USPSA, ICORE, IDPA and some SASS.

[RJH]

I think people that blame "ego" are just stroking their own.  I really comes down to what people like to do.  Some like to fish, hunt, drink beer, play softball, tennis, golf, and about a million other things.  I have been asked a lot of times to go play some team sport, but I just don't care to and it has nothing to do with getting beat, I just don't like it.  Everyone in our sport is a looser except for about 8 people at nationals (including provisional), I think that is why people want to blame others "ego" so they can feel less loosrey.  Full disclosure, I used to be an ego blamer too, but have since realized that what I like to do is not for everyone, but that doesn't  mean that they are scared to shoot, they just prefer other things than going to a range and taping targets for three hours, to shoot for a minute and a half

[gavagai]

Everybody thinks that their passion is the cat's pajamas. I was a well known notorious bore with another previous activity of mine trying to persuade others to try it. I think people often feigned interested because they'd tried everything else to shut me up. I try to avoid that now, although my wife suffers a bit listening to me blather on.

It's a huge time commitment, as mentioned. That's actually a material problem for me.

It's a huge step up from shooting paper at the range. Probably a step too far.

It's a potential ego hit, as mentioned.

People have other interests that take priority (eg. families).

Add all that up and it's not really a surprise to me that the tryout rate is pitiful. I started shooting in an indoor range that had a local league with a kind of timed lane rapid fire at various distances with different kinds of USPSA-like start positions. They were pretty much all better than me, and knew it, and mostly pretty good shooters who would have done well (one of the better ones performed at about B-class straight up). I tried to get a few to go to matches but very few ever did. For various reasons they didn't have the desire.

The other thing I have noticed is that not everybody is that enthusiastic about growing the sport anyway. I've never seen anyone doing anything to actively discourage anyone, but I've never seen much outreach either (not that I've been around that much). It's basically just word of mouth by people like those on this thread.

[MHicks]

Absolutely. Ego isn't the only reason people don't compete. But It is a factor in keeping some shooters away. 

[Stiven]

Time, money, lack of self awareness

As a newbie (I am one) stepping outside my comfort zone trying something new and not good at straight up sucks. 

[gavagai]

3 hours ago, RJH said:

 they just prefer other things than going to a range and taping targets for three hours, to shoot for a minute and a half

That's just depressing. You're convincing me :-(

[tanks]

It really is not any different from any other recreational sport except for one thing. It lacks the social aspect of it. Before having to give tennis up due to a bad hip I used to be an open level tennis player (think GM in USPSA). Cost wise it is probably about the same in that you are paying hundreds a month in club fees, equipment etc.. Time wise, when I used to compete in weekend tournaments I'd practice serves or with a ball machine about 1-2 hours a day plus daily matches to keep sharp (think daily dry fire, plus range time). 

 After a tennis match people do gather around and socialize as well. Not to mention that there are a lot of ladies playing and tennis clubs hold regular parties for people to socialize. I have dated a fair amount of women that I had met through tennis over the years.

In shooting the goal is to go, shoot, and leave as soon as possible to salvage the rest of the weekend. There really is little to no social aspect to speak of. If people socialize, it is not at the range. Without the social aspect it becomes a solitary sport. Not to mention that it is a male dominated sport as well.

Without the social aspect it will not be a popular sport.

[GrumpyOne]

18 minutes ago, Stiven said:

Time, money, lack of self awareness

As a newbie (I am one) stepping outside my comfort zone trying something new and not good at straight up sucks. 

Use that to your advantage.  Doing poorly at something you like to do is a sure way to make yourself try to get better.