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[B_RAD]

42 minutes ago, BillR1 said:

 

Also, as I pointed out, the rule WON'T help me in the standings in most cases. But go ahead and ignore that comment if you like

You did say that. I remember reading it. 

 

Bottom line, the new rule is gonna happen. 

 

Why? Well,... I've heard rumors and speculation. 

 

Does it matter?  Not really. 

 

 

[BillR1]

6 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

You did say that. I remember reading it. 

 

Bottom line, the new rule is gonna happen. 

 

Why? Well,... I've heard rumors and speculation. 

 

Does it matter?  Not really. 

 

 

Precisely. Thank you!

It simply doesn't matter at this point who likes/doesn't like the rule, or any of the reasons why. 

[B_RAD]

I've actually rethought it a little. 

My first match after making MA (2nd sanctioned match) I shot it fast. Too fast for me. I had WAY too many PD. I came in 3/3 in MA SSP (7th overall). 

I squaded with the shooter who won Div Champ (2nd overall). He told me "you're shooting too fast". He was right. It didn't feel like it but the hits showed it. Plus 2 NS!  

Anywyas, I need to throttle back just a little. Not a lot. Where I need to get faster is on everything else but actually pulling the trigger. 

My first sanctioned match (as a SS) I won the div and was 4th over all. I didn't expect to win so I just shot my sights. After making MA I thought, "crap, I gotta go light speed, I'm a MA now"!  Well, that didn't work!     

This rule, while I'm not in favor of it, isn't gonna hurt my scores. At least not without affecting everyone else's  since everyone is is gonna be scored the same. 

 

Point is, shoot it as fast and as accurate as you can. Then try to do it faster and more accurate!  

Edited December 5, 2016 by B_RAD

[Racinready300ex]

7 minutes ago, BillR1 said:

Precisely. Thank you!

It simply doesn't matter at this point who likes/doesn't like the rule, or any of the reasons why. 

Sure it does...are we not paying customers? Can we not like or dislike something about the product? If we don't like it, and don't say anything will it every change?

If you're trying to say we are stuck with the 1-1 scoring, yes you're probably right at least for now. I bet a lot of people said fault lines didn't matter, reloading on the move didn't matter...look at us now. IDPA rules change with the wind, who knows what this game will look like two years from now.

[B_RAD]

8 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

Sure it does...are we not paying customers? Can we not like or dislike something about the product? If we don't like it, and don't say anything will it every change?

If you're trying to say we are stuck with the 1-1 scoring, yes you're probably right at least for now. I bet a lot of people said fault lines didn't matter, reloading on the move didn't matter...look at us now. IDPA rules change with the wind, who knows what this game will look like two years from now.

Yes, but there are memebers who do want this rule. So,..... 

 

I've made peace with it. 

 

I mean, I want to shoot every stage -0 down and have the fastest time. So, how will the rule change that. When I get there it won't matter. 

Edited December 5, 2016 by B_RAD

[Thomas H]

1 hour ago, BillR1 said:

No, I think what "everyone understood" (and what you obviously missed!) is that I was replying to BRad's comment when he said  "I don't believe for a minute they're gonna stay with the current scoring. The majority of thier membership is 50+. They want to slow the game down. Everyone over 50 that I've talked to about this says pretty much the exact same thing. Something along the lines of "it'll keep gamers from winning based on speed".  

So because I agree with the premise of his comment, I'm in the wrong?? Got it! 

Also, as I pointed out, the rule WON'T help me in the standings in most cases. But go ahead and ignore that comment if you like.

The bottom line is some people like the proposed change, and some don't. I'm totally OK with people having different opinions. How about you?

Have a great day!

You agreed with the premise of his comment, that you want to slow the game down?

Thanks for making my point.

 

Also:  well done on completely ignoring the rest of the post.  But, then again, like you said, you don't actually have any specific reasons for liking the rules (other than what you've said about slowing the game down), and you can't think of any problem the rule will solve.  So....ok.

 

[Thomas H]

31 minutes ago, BillR1 said:

Precisely. Thank you!

It simply doesn't matter at this point who likes/doesn't like the rule, or any of the reasons why. 

So----you are admitting that you also think that any feedback from the members will make no difference to IDPA HQ?

[BillR1]

56 minutes ago, Thomas H said:

So----you are admitting that you also think that any feedback from the members will make no difference to IDPA HQ?

That's my belief in this case. So like BRad, I've "made peace" with the rule. So...OK

[BillR1]

59 minutes ago, Thomas H said:

You agreed with the premise of his comment, that you want to slow the game down?

 

It means I don't have an issue with making accuracy (and penalties) worth more. If that slows the game down, so be it.

Your point?

[BillR1]

1 hour ago, B_RAD said:

I've actually rethought it a little. 

My first match after making MA (2nd sanctioned match) I shot it fast. Too fast for me. I had WAY too many PD. I came in 3/3 in MA SSP (7th overall). 

I squaded with the shooter who won Div Champ (2nd overall). He told me "you're shooting too fast". He was right. It didn't feel like it but the hits showed it. Plus 2 NS!  

Anywyas, I need to throttle back just a little. Not a lot. Where I need to get faster is on everything else but actually pulling the trigger. 

My first sanctioned match (as a SS) I won the div and was 4th over all. I didn't expect to win so I just shot my sights. After making MA I thought, "crap, I gotta go light speed, I'm a MA now"!  Well, that didn't work!     

This rule, while I'm not in favor of it, isn't gonna hurt my scores. At least not without affecting everyone else's  since everyone is is gonna be scored the same. 

 

Point is, shoot it as fast and as accurate as you can. Then try to do it faster and more accurate!  

Interesting...I had the same thing happen on Saturday. I shot a match away from my home club, and this group was loaded with MA and high EX shooters. I tried to go too fast to keep up with them, and dropped a lot more points than normal. Throttling back is needed here also!

[jhgtyre]

Friendly Neighborhood Moderator Note:

If you came here to bicker, or even if you didn't and you are now bickering, cut it out before I close the thread and have to start deciding if anyone needs 30 days in the cooler.  Okay?

[IronArcher]

Some items that come to mind that I believe are facts:
1) some people like the new scoring rule
2) some do not like the new scoring rule
3) Based on numerous polls, it would seem those that don't like the new scoring rules outnumber those in favor by about 5:1
4) it will slow the game down
5) there wasn't (isn't) enough of a need (some would say zero) nor enough of a desire amongst members to necessitate DOUBLEING the scoring penalties.
6) Most in favor of it seem to justify their position by saying it won't change anything. I believe this to be a false statement.


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[Thomas H]

17 hours ago, IronArcher said:

Some items that come to mind that I believe are facts:
1) some people like the new scoring rule
2) some do not like the new scoring rule
3) Based on numerous polls, it would seem those that don't like the new scoring rules outnumber those in favor by about 5:1
4) it will slow the game down
5) there wasn't (isn't) enough of a need (some would say zero) nor enough of a desire amongst members to necessitate DOUBLEING the scoring penalties.
6) Most in favor of it seem to justify their position by saying it won't change anything. I believe this to be a false statement.


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7) Feedback from members will make no difference to the final decision made by IDPA HQ.

[Jim Watson]

They were building us up for Joyce Count scoring for a long time, it has obviously been locked in for a year or more.  The only question being just when it would take effect. 

But they sprung PCC on us and obsoleted a lot of 2015 CCPs and BUGs with no buildup apparent to Mere Members. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Jim Watson

[BillR1]

1 hour ago, Jim Watson said:

They were building us up for Joyce Count scoring for a long time, it has obviously been locked in for a year or more.  The only question being just when it would take effect. 

But they sprung PCC on us and obsoleted a lot of 2015 CCPs and BUGs with no buildup apparent to Mere Members. 

Agreed! IMO, these are bigger problems than the 1PPS rule, since it costs members money to reconfigure/buy guns that many have just purchased this year.

[Tokarev]

Email period has passes. Any idea when we might hear anything from IDPA on our responses?

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[MikeBurgess]

I keep seeing statements to the affect that accuracy is not valued enough under the current scoring system, not something I agree with but it is being said, so if Accuracy is actually the most important aspect of the shooting challenge then why why don't they change it so the Highest score wins and time is used to sort scoring ties. 

so shooter 1 scores 100 points in 200 seconds and shooter 2 scores 99 points in 100 seconds then shooter 1 beats shooter 2 if shooter 3 shoots also 99 points but takes 101 second then they get third ect. 

The challenge in the game would be to see who could shoot a perfect score the quickest, for those unable to shoot a perfect score the challenge would be to see how close they can get. to increase the challenge you could further limit the number of rounds a shooter is allowed to start with so they would have less makeup shots available.

 

[ngodwetrust21]

13 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

I keep seeing statements to the affect that accuracy is not valued enough under the current scoring system, not something I agree with but it is being said, so if Accuracy is actually the most important aspect of the shooting challenge then why why don't they change it so the Highest score wins and time is used to sort scoring ties. 

so shooter 1 scores 100 points in 200 seconds and shooter 2 scores 99 points in 100 seconds then shooter 1 beats shooter 2 if shooter 3 shoots also 99 points but takes 101 second then they get third ect. 

The challenge in the game would be to see who could shoot a perfect score the quickest, for those unable to shoot a perfect score the challenge would be to see how close they can get. to increase the challenge you could further limit the number of rounds a shooter is allowed to start with so they would have less makeup shots available.

 

I like it! Matches would take twice as long too! Just wait until the people making the rules get really old. It will prolly turn into exactly what you described.

[rowdyb]

on the positive side, if you get a match that implements the VCL you'll be able to go much much faster.

to me, what seemed the slowest part of idpa was making sure you hit cover as you rolled into a position. it was opaque, nebulous. but now if there is a line on the ground you can hit that position hard, without the cover call worry. and that will be a significant increase in how quickly a person can shoot a stage.

the trick will be getting the "all change is bad" MD at your local to implement them.

[BillR1]

2 hours ago, rowdyb said:

on the positive side, if you get a match that implements the VCL you'll be able to go much much faster.

to me, what seemed the slowest part of idpa was making sure you hit cover as you rolled into a position. it was opaque, nebulous. but now if there is a line on the ground you can hit that position hard, without the cover call worry. and that will be a significant increase in how quickly a person can shoot a stage.

the trick will be getting the "all change is bad" MD at your local to implement them.

I'm not sure the VCL is going to be the game-changer that some believe. If the usual cover rules still apply, the VCL may cause more problems than it solves.

I can only see it being used on a single target rather than an array, particularly if the line is a wood stick. Since the cover line changes on subsequent targets in an array around cover, it would be difficult to put a "fan" of cover lines for all of the targets. Trip hazard anyone? It works fine for USPSA because they don't care about cover, only foot position. 

Edited December 8, 2016 by BillR1

[rowdyb]

for me and my skill level, it will make a difference.

[SCTaylor]

15 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

I keep seeing statements to the affect that accuracy is not valued enough under the current scoring system, not something I agree with but it is being said, so if Accuracy is actually the most important aspect of the shooting challenge then why why don't they change it so the Highest score wins and time is used to sort scoring ties. 

so shooter 1 scores 100 points in 200 seconds and shooter 2 scores 99 points in 100 seconds then shooter 1 beats shooter 2 if shooter 3 shoots also 99 points but takes 101 second then they get third ect. 

The challenge in the game would be to see who could shoot a perfect score the quickest, for those unable to shoot a perfect score the challenge would be to see how close they can get. to increase the challenge you could further limit the number of rounds a shooter is allowed to start with so they would have less makeup shots available.

 

I couldn't even imagine how much that would slow things down. Sounds like a good idea but holy molasses. 

[BillR1]

1 hour ago, BillR1 said:

 

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by BillR1

[B_RAD]

I'm anxious to see how many MD will use the VCRL?  

I've heard from a few folks that they will not because "they're not needed because you're either behind cover or your not. It's simple to tell"!  

 

I just changed the topic because how can anyone respond to that?!  If I had hair I would have pulled it out!  I'm thinking to myself "are you freakin kidding me"?!

I'd like to see them!  I actually commented to HQ that I'd like to see them mandatory rather than optional.  Though, I know that's not gonna happen!

We'll see.........

[MikeBurgess]

I couldn't even imagine how much that would slow things down. Sounds like a good idea but holy molasses. 

Just to clarify

I do not think this is a good idea, it was more a reductio ad absurdum

The point being in a defensive use if force a 10 second perfect shot will always loose to a 1 second slightly less good shot and the 30 other shots that could be taken in that period of time.

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